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	<title>Comments on: Eye Weekly&#8217;s Semi-Weekly Load of Crazy</title>
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	<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/</link>
	<description>For the love of dog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 22:03:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 22:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-173</guid>
		<description>I think what you are asking is the difference between a Holistic Nutritionist (with RHN designation) and a Registered Dietician?

Registered Holistic Nutritionists are granted their designation after completing a demanding course of study set by the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition . They must complete the program within the allotted time frame (1 or 2 years) along with case studies, subject-specific, board and oral examinations, and practicum hours, with a cumulative minimum average of 80% to graduate. The school then grants them the RHN designation. Many RHNs go on to join the IONC, or International Organization of Nutritional Consultants and obtain the RNCP designation. RHNs and RNCPs must abide by strict codes of ethics or face consequences like losing their designation and the right to practice. RNCPs must complete annual upgrading requirements to keep their title. There has been much confusion lately with use of the term &quot;nutritionist&quot;. Although it is true that anyone can call themselves a &quot;nutritionist&quot;, only graduates from the CSNN program can call themselves an RHN. There are other nutrition schools granting various designations, and people should investigate the credentials of their practitioner if they doubt their training or experience. Dieticians play an important role in the community, educating large groups of people, working in hospitals and other health care institutions. They have completed their bachelor&#039;s degree in human nutrition and an internship program to gain clinical experience in their chosen field of employment. Most Dieticians work in clinics, industry or institutions, and about 5% are in private practice. Dieticians are regulated under the Regulated Health Practitioners Act. Although some RHNs are employed in clinics and by the food industry, most RHNs work in private practice. Dieticians follow general recommendations for food selection set out by the Canada Food Guide. RHNs do not believe that there should be one guide for everyone, because everyone is different. However, RHNs recognize and appreciate that the Canada Food Guide is a reference tool for persons that are generally healthy and active without any health conditions or symptoms of ill-health. Registered Holistic Nutritionists respect the education, training and expertise of Registered Dieticians. Because of the differences in their training, an RHN will take a different approach (as compared with a Dietician) to nutrition and lifestyle recommendations. RHNs help their clients choose appropriate foods specific to their needs and sensitivities and provide other services with respect to this selection process. Dieticians have many other specific skills, especially in the areas of psychology and education. Some dieticians have even joined the IONC as RNCPs, or obtained an RHN designation. RHNs often work with Dieticians and other Health Professionals for the good of their clients. 

Often an RHN will continue their education and obtain other designations or skills (like a doctor would specialize), or they have a background in something (i.e. personal trainer, massage therapist, chiropractor) prior to becoming an RHN.

Registered Dieticians of Canada
http://www.dietitians.ca/

International Organization of Nutritional Consultants 
http://www.ionc.org/

Canadian School of Natural Nutrition
http://csnn.ca/about/our-mission/

Ryerson School of Nutrition
http://www.ryerson.ca/nutritionandfood/

Hope this clarifies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what you are asking is the difference between a Holistic Nutritionist (with RHN designation) and a Registered Dietician?</p>
<p>Registered Holistic Nutritionists are granted their designation after completing a demanding course of study set by the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition . They must complete the program within the allotted time frame (1 or 2 years) along with case studies, subject-specific, board and oral examinations, and practicum hours, with a cumulative minimum average of 80% to graduate. The school then grants them the RHN designation. Many RHNs go on to join the IONC, or International Organization of Nutritional Consultants and obtain the RNCP designation. RHNs and RNCPs must abide by strict codes of ethics or face consequences like losing their designation and the right to practice. RNCPs must complete annual upgrading requirements to keep their title. There has been much confusion lately with use of the term &#8220;nutritionist&#8221;. Although it is true that anyone can call themselves a &#8220;nutritionist&#8221;, only graduates from the CSNN program can call themselves an RHN. There are other nutrition schools granting various designations, and people should investigate the credentials of their practitioner if they doubt their training or experience. Dieticians play an important role in the community, educating large groups of people, working in hospitals and other health care institutions. They have completed their bachelor&#8217;s degree in human nutrition and an internship program to gain clinical experience in their chosen field of employment. Most Dieticians work in clinics, industry or institutions, and about 5% are in private practice. Dieticians are regulated under the Regulated Health Practitioners Act. Although some RHNs are employed in clinics and by the food industry, most RHNs work in private practice. Dieticians follow general recommendations for food selection set out by the Canada Food Guide. RHNs do not believe that there should be one guide for everyone, because everyone is different. However, RHNs recognize and appreciate that the Canada Food Guide is a reference tool for persons that are generally healthy and active without any health conditions or symptoms of ill-health. Registered Holistic Nutritionists respect the education, training and expertise of Registered Dieticians. Because of the differences in their training, an RHN will take a different approach (as compared with a Dietician) to nutrition and lifestyle recommendations. RHNs help their clients choose appropriate foods specific to their needs and sensitivities and provide other services with respect to this selection process. Dieticians have many other specific skills, especially in the areas of psychology and education. Some dieticians have even joined the IONC as RNCPs, or obtained an RHN designation. RHNs often work with Dieticians and other Health Professionals for the good of their clients. </p>
<p>Often an RHN will continue their education and obtain other designations or skills (like a doctor would specialize), or they have a background in something (i.e. personal trainer, massage therapist, chiropractor) prior to becoming an RHN.</p>
<p>Registered Dieticians of Canada<br />
<a href="http://www.dietitians.ca/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dietitians.ca/</a></p>
<p>International Organization of Nutritional Consultants<br />
<a href="http://www.ionc.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ionc.org/</a></p>
<p>Canadian School of Natural Nutrition<br />
<a href="http://csnn.ca/about/our-mission/" rel="nofollow">http://csnn.ca/about/our-mission/</a></p>
<p>Ryerson School of Nutrition<br />
<a href="http://www.ryerson.ca/nutritionandfood/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ryerson.ca/nutritionandfood/</a></p>
<p>Hope this clarifies.</p>
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		<title>By: xinit</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>xinit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Tracy, you used &quot;You are required to take a lengthy exam.&quot; as a metric for establishing the worth of the profession and the degree. I offer simply that any pseudo-scientific nonsense can have a lengthy exam. 

With enough cash, enough time, anyone can call themselves an RHN; especially with no body willing or able to police them. Political or not, it&#039;s a failing. The public see some impressive looking initials after your name on the business card, and think that there is an established industry of science and thought behind the potions they&#039;re being sold.

Is anyone with an RHN ever just an RHN? Everyone I&#039;m seeing with ads here in Toronto are energy workers, or working in clinics with reflexologists and iridologists and chiropractors and reiki practitioners and colon cleansers. 

What is different between a Holistic Nutritionist and a Nutritionist? Magic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy, you used &#8220;You are required to take a lengthy exam.&#8221; as a metric for establishing the worth of the profession and the degree. I offer simply that any pseudo-scientific nonsense can have a lengthy exam. </p>
<p>With enough cash, enough time, anyone can call themselves an RHN; especially with no body willing or able to police them. Political or not, it&#8217;s a failing. The public see some impressive looking initials after your name on the business card, and think that there is an established industry of science and thought behind the potions they&#8217;re being sold.</p>
<p>Is anyone with an RHN ever just an RHN? Everyone I&#8217;m seeing with ads here in Toronto are energy workers, or working in clinics with reflexologists and iridologists and chiropractors and reiki practitioners and colon cleansers. </p>
<p>What is different between a Holistic Nutritionist and a Nutritionist? Magic.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lynchehaun</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lynchehaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-171</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;A medical doctor can just as easily dole out bad advice or misdiagnose someone as can a naturopath or holistic nutritionist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When a medical doctor gives out bad advice and/or misdiagnoses someone, there are repercussions. They lose their license (no, not immediately, it&#039;s not an efficient or fast process), and it becomes &lt;b&gt;illegal&lt;/b&gt; for them to continue to practice medicine.

When a naturopath or nutritionist gives bad advice or misdiagnoses someone... they charge their usual fee, and will continue to do so until they choose to quit the profession.


You see the difference?

You see the problem?

&lt;blockquote&gt;... are ethical and prudent about the advice they give.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would contend that &quot;due diligence&quot; is necessary requirement of an &quot;ethical&quot; practice (I&#039;m a philosophy major, Ethics is one of my primary areas of study, including (especially?) Biomedical Ethics).

If something is unproven, by rigorous and statistically sound methodology, then no-one has any business practicing it.

Test the hell out of it. Then &lt;b&gt;if&lt;/b&gt; it works, practice it.

The refusal of the bulk of woo-practitioners to accept this step renders them &lt;b&gt;un&lt;/b&gt;ethical, regardless of how earnest they are.

&lt;blockquote&gt;And in fact many medical doctors work in tandem with holistic nutritionists and naturopaths to give a patient optimum care.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Most doctors are not researchers, and have as poor an understanding of scientific rigour as lay-people.

I would, in fact, cite your own quote as proof of that.

&lt;blockquote&gt;This kind of Integrated Medicine is becoming more and more common.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree. However, I think it&#039;s extremely unfortunate that this is occurring as it lacquers the woo with a veneer of Respectability that it hasn&#039;t earned. People who don&#039;t have a good understanding of science and empiricism tend to just think &quot;oh, well, actual *doctors* are involved, so it &lt;b&gt;must&lt;/b&gt; be legit&quot;.

In other circles this is called &#039;bait and switch&#039;: present the public with a perfectly respectable and tested profession (the doctor) and then when they seek treatment, give them nonsense (the naturopath) instead. But don&#039;t forget to charge...

&lt;blockquote&gt;That said, just because something is outside of “mainstream” medicine it does not automatically become invaluable bunk. Look beyond the label and you might find something worthwhile.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s not valueless bunk &lt;b&gt;because&lt;/b&gt; of the label, or &lt;b&gt;because&lt;/b&gt; it&#039;s outside of mainstream science.

It&#039;s outside of mainstream science because its proponents refuse to subject it to scrutiny. And when it is scrutinised, the proponents of the stuff just disregard the results.

&lt;b&gt;That&#039;s&lt;/b&gt; what makes it valueless bunk: the purveyors of the crap just blindly keep going on and reject all evidence to the contrary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>A medical doctor can just as easily dole out bad advice or misdiagnose someone as can a naturopath or holistic nutritionist.</p></blockquote>
<p>When a medical doctor gives out bad advice and/or misdiagnoses someone, there are repercussions. They lose their license (no, not immediately, it&#8217;s not an efficient or fast process), and it becomes <b>illegal</b> for them to continue to practice medicine.</p>
<p>When a naturopath or nutritionist gives bad advice or misdiagnoses someone&#8230; they charge their usual fee, and will continue to do so until they choose to quit the profession.</p>
<p>You see the difference?</p>
<p>You see the problem?</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; are ethical and prudent about the advice they give.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would contend that &#8220;due diligence&#8221; is necessary requirement of an &#8220;ethical&#8221; practice (I&#8217;m a philosophy major, Ethics is one of my primary areas of study, including (especially?) Biomedical Ethics).</p>
<p>If something is unproven, by rigorous and statistically sound methodology, then no-one has any business practicing it.</p>
<p>Test the hell out of it. Then <b>if</b> it works, practice it.</p>
<p>The refusal of the bulk of woo-practitioners to accept this step renders them <b>un</b>ethical, regardless of how earnest they are.</p>
<blockquote><p>And in fact many medical doctors work in tandem with holistic nutritionists and naturopaths to give a patient optimum care.</p></blockquote>
<p>Most doctors are not researchers, and have as poor an understanding of scientific rigour as lay-people.</p>
<p>I would, in fact, cite your own quote as proof of that.</p>
<blockquote><p>This kind of Integrated Medicine is becoming more and more common.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree. However, I think it&#8217;s extremely unfortunate that this is occurring as it lacquers the woo with a veneer of Respectability that it hasn&#8217;t earned. People who don&#8217;t have a good understanding of science and empiricism tend to just think &#8220;oh, well, actual *doctors* are involved, so it <b>must</b> be legit&#8221;.</p>
<p>In other circles this is called &#8216;bait and switch&#8217;: present the public with a perfectly respectable and tested profession (the doctor) and then when they seek treatment, give them nonsense (the naturopath) instead. But don&#8217;t forget to charge&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>That said, just because something is outside of “mainstream” medicine it does not automatically become invaluable bunk. Look beyond the label and you might find something worthwhile.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s not valueless bunk <b>because</b> of the label, or <b>because</b> it&#8217;s outside of mainstream science.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s outside of mainstream science because its proponents refuse to subject it to scrutiny. And when it is scrutinised, the proponents of the stuff just disregard the results.</p>
<p><b>That&#8217;s</b> what makes it valueless bunk: the purveyors of the crap just blindly keep going on and reject all evidence to the contrary.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jun 2010 20:00:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-170</guid>
		<description>In every profession there are people who talk crap (this includes doctors, lawyers, and tattoo artists). A medical doctor can just as easily dole out bad advice or misdiagnose someone as can a naturopath or holistic nutritionist. 

The majority of health care practitioners (including &quot;mainstream&quot; practitioners, dietitians, naturopaths, and holistic nutrititionists) are in it for the right reasons, and are ethical and prudent about the advice they give. And in fact many medical doctors work in tandem with holistic nutritionists and naturopaths to give a patient optimum care. This kind of Integrated Medicine is becoming more and more common. 

On your snide comment re: &quot;Doctorate in Unicorn Husbandry&quot;, this is just malice. If you took a look at many of the textbooks we use (including the Human Anatomy/Physiology and Basic Nutrition texts) they are the same texts used in med school. And in fact the Basic Nutrition textbook was written by a well-respected medical Doctor. Our Performance Nutrition text is a Kinesiology textbook. Know what you are talking about before you insult. 

I am not at all saying that every &quot;alternative&quot; therapy is legit - I too have some problems with things like &quot;energy work&quot; or &quot;biofeedback&quot;. Therapies have to be rooted in practicality and some kind of evidence to be valuable. That said, just because something is outside of &quot;mainstream&quot; medicine it does not automatically become invaluable bunk. Look beyond the label and you might find something worthwhile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In every profession there are people who talk crap (this includes doctors, lawyers, and tattoo artists). A medical doctor can just as easily dole out bad advice or misdiagnose someone as can a naturopath or holistic nutritionist. </p>
<p>The majority of health care practitioners (including &#8220;mainstream&#8221; practitioners, dietitians, naturopaths, and holistic nutrititionists) are in it for the right reasons, and are ethical and prudent about the advice they give. And in fact many medical doctors work in tandem with holistic nutritionists and naturopaths to give a patient optimum care. This kind of Integrated Medicine is becoming more and more common. </p>
<p>On your snide comment re: &#8220;Doctorate in Unicorn Husbandry&#8221;, this is just malice. If you took a look at many of the textbooks we use (including the Human Anatomy/Physiology and Basic Nutrition texts) they are the same texts used in med school. And in fact the Basic Nutrition textbook was written by a well-respected medical Doctor. Our Performance Nutrition text is a Kinesiology textbook. Know what you are talking about before you insult. </p>
<p>I am not at all saying that every &#8220;alternative&#8221; therapy is legit &#8211; I too have some problems with things like &#8220;energy work&#8221; or &#8220;biofeedback&#8221;. Therapies have to be rooted in practicality and some kind of evidence to be valuable. That said, just because something is outside of &#8220;mainstream&#8221; medicine it does not automatically become invaluable bunk. Look beyond the label and you might find something worthwhile.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lynchehaun</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Lynchehaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-169</guid>
		<description>&quot;Holistic Nutritionists are quite aware of basic biology and science.&quot;

So... they&#039;re intentionally saying things that aren&#039;t true to their clients?

Are you saying that they are &lt;b&gt;lying&lt;/b&gt; to their clients?



Because when they&#039;re talking crap, there&#039;s only two explanations: ignorance or maliciousness. Xinit (and myself) is erring on the charitable side of caution: we&#039;re assuming that they&#039;re ignorant fools.

But if you&#039;d prefer to clarify that they are actually committing fraud... Feel free to be more specific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Holistic Nutritionists are quite aware of basic biology and science.&#8221;</p>
<p>So&#8230; they&#8217;re intentionally saying things that aren&#8217;t true to their clients?</p>
<p>Are you saying that they are <b>lying</b> to their clients?</p>
<p>Because when they&#8217;re talking crap, there&#8217;s only two explanations: ignorance or maliciousness. Xinit (and myself) is erring on the charitable side of caution: we&#8217;re assuming that they&#8217;re ignorant fools.</p>
<p>But if you&#8217;d prefer to clarify that they are actually committing fraud&#8230; Feel free to be more specific.</p>
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		<title>By: xinit</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>xinit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jun 2010 16:32:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-168</guid>
		<description>Tracy - just because there are things to memorize, and tests to take does not make the basic science of the designation real. 

If I had a Doctorate in Unicorn Husbandry, and it involved a little bit of real science and had some tests and made me write papers on the genetic inheritence patterns in horn spiral and colour patterns does not actually make unicorns real.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tracy &#8211; just because there are things to memorize, and tests to take does not make the basic science of the designation real. </p>
<p>If I had a Doctorate in Unicorn Husbandry, and it involved a little bit of real science and had some tests and made me write papers on the genetic inheritence patterns in horn spiral and colour patterns does not actually make unicorns real.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticaldog.com/2009/10/19/eye-weeklys-semi-weekly-load-of-crazy/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 13:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.skepticaldog.com/?p=34#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Holistic Nutritionists are quite aware of basic biology and science. The course is quite intensive, and although the profession is not regulated by a provincial (or national) board, this has more to do with politics than the qualifications of the practitioners. RHN is not a &quot;bought&quot; designation, as you state. You are required to take a lengthy exam. You are pointing to the EYE Weekly reporter as making broad generalizations and not supporting her article with facts. You should also research your own broad statements and present the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holistic Nutritionists are quite aware of basic biology and science. The course is quite intensive, and although the profession is not regulated by a provincial (or national) board, this has more to do with politics than the qualifications of the practitioners. RHN is not a &#8220;bought&#8221; designation, as you state. You are required to take a lengthy exam. You are pointing to the EYE Weekly reporter as making broad generalizations and not supporting her article with facts. You should also research your own broad statements and present the facts.</p>
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