Author Archive

Eye Weekly’s Semi-Weekly Load of Crazy

October 19th, 2009 | Category: Homeopathy, Naturopathy, anti-vaccination

Eye Weekly is one of Toronto’s free weekly newspapers, and their editorial policy seems to be on par with the Huffington Post when it comes to issues of health.

Damian has told readers “Don’t Fear The Flu” and recommended that they ask their homeopaths and naturopaths how to fight H1N1 and seasonal flus. She recommends such “time-tested” methods as keeping your kidneys warm…

She has another piece where she tells returning university students how to save money by seeing student naturopaths. That’s right, don’t see pretend doctors, see pretend doctors in training to save money. At no time does she mention that you could see a real doctor for free. Naturopath or nothing, it would seem.

There was the one article where I thought that she might write some sense, as my first thought seeing the headline “Booster Shots” was that it might address vaccination updates such as those for mumps, tetanus, flu, etc. Nope; just advice on how to “boost” your immune system with herbs and vitamins. I’ve never heard anyone who can define how an immune system can really be boosted, but I suppose the fact that she can write it in a paper must make it so.

The latest article Damian gives us is not the worst one I’ve seen, but it’s as full of bad advice and unproven treatments as all the others. This one needs so much of a response that I can’t just leave it on the comment system over at the web page for Elimination Dance. This one needs paragraph by paragraph response; quoted text is Damian Rogers’ text, and mine follows.

“I realize it’s sort of trendy, but there is a reason those clear-skinned, bright-eyed, naturopath-following, yoga-loving people — the ones who make you feel badly about bingeing on pizza in front of the television — swear by seasonal detox programs. And that reason is that taking a break from your less health-minded habits can make you feel lighter, sharper and ready to rumble. And hey, the Canadian winter isn’t for the weak.”

Health minded people should be seeing health professionals. You’re implying here that detox makes yoga-loving people acne-free and bright-eyed, and that’s not exactly true. Sure, there are plenty of fit looking, clean skinned followers of yoga and naturopathy, but their number has not been shown to be any different than a random collection of healthy non-yoga people. I can only assume that you’re suffering from some sort of confirmation bias when you’re in your yoga class, seeing only the pretty people.

I know a yoga instructor who is neurotically unhealthy, acne-ridden, and homeopathy-downing; this does not support any conclusion about yoga instructors at large. Using similar logic to what you use in your article, and based on my personal experience alone, I could conclude that yoga instructors are filled with self-loathing at not being good enough. I’m sure that’s not the case at all, and that yoga instructors and yoga practitioners represent a similar demographic as you might encounter in any after-work gym session; basically people that are trying to improve themselves in some way, and people with at least a bit more disposable income than the average.

“Of course, individual results vary, so it’s important to find what works best for you. Here are some things that have worked for me.”

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data. I’m going to spoil the end of the article now, and let you know that at no time does Damian recommend anything like seeing a professional that’s covered by your provincial healthcare; just naturopaths and unregulated, unproved services.

The following quote is from Tim Minchin[1]; a comedian with a wry description of what, exactly, alternative medicine is;

ā€œBy definitionā€, I begin
ā€œAlternative Medicineā€, I continue
ā€œHas either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call ā€œalternative medicineā€
That’s been proved to work?
Medicine.ā€

At this rate, I’m going to have triple the word count in my reply that Damian had in the article this is supposed to be a response to. So, back to the article with the first anecdote.

SKIN BRUSHING – I do this all year, but it feels especially good once the air gets cooler and the first hint of winter itch sets in. The idea is to literally brush your skin with a dry, natural-bristle brush (you can pick one up at most health food stores) from the bottoms of your feet up to your neck, always moving the brush in the direction of your heart. This is a cheap and easy daily detox routine that not only sweeps away dead skin cells but also stimulates the circulation and lymphatic systems.

On first glance, I thought this to be harmless feel-good advice for exfoliating, removing dry skin, or maybe just one of those things that you do because it just feels good. That opening shower scene from the movie “Gattaca” comes to mind, but that’s it.

Always moving the brush in the direction of your heart? To what end? I did a bit of searching online to find out what dry brushing your skin has to do with the lymphatic system. One of the highest ranked results[2] outlines what natural health practitioners say about the skin and about dry brushing, claiming that the skin is a third kidney and sheds waste acids. Waste doesn’t come out through the skin; that’s water, salt, and oil. Waste actually comes out from two pretty specifically defined regions of the body, and that’s it. Dead skin isn’t a toxin, and its removal doesn’t remove these undefined toxins from the body either.

Google searches find unsubstantiated claims of dry skin brushing removing cellulite, cleansing the lymphatic system, strengthening the immune system, stimulating hormone and oil-producing glands (wait, brushing skin makes you greasier? Ew.), tightening the skin, toning muscles (how does brushing the skin tone muscles; other than in the arm you’re using to brush?), improving nervous system function, and that it helps your digestion in some way. I think I see a whole article just in dry skin brushing, so I may have to re-visit this one later.

LYMPH-DRAINAGE OK, so what the hell is the lymphatic system anyway? The lymphatic system filters waste (excess fluid, dead blood cells, toxins, etc.) and destroys pathogens, so it’s a major player in maintaining the immune system. For the lymph system to do its job, it must be able to drain properly. There are a few things you can do to help this happen, like jumping for a few minutes every day on a mini-trampoline (or a normal-sized one if you really want to have fun) and getting a targeted massage.

This is kind of a glossy high-level view of what the lymphatic system is for, but a bit muddled. To Wikipedia!

The lymphatic system has three interrelated functions: it is responsible for the removal of interstitial fluid from tissues; it absorbs and transports fatty acids and fats as chyle to the circulatory system; and it transports immune cells to and from the lymph nodes. The lymph transports antigen-presenting cells (APCs), such as dendritic cells, to the lymph nodes where an immune response is stimulated. The lymph also carries lymphocytes from the efferent lymphatics exiting the lymph nodes. — Lymphatic System on Wikipedia

Now back to the author’s anecdotes about her friends in the alt-med communities

At the beginning of my recent detox, I got the Lymphomaniac Facial ($105) with Jean Eng at Pure and Simple (725 King W., 416-366-8558) and it really helped get me into the swing of things. First of all, it’s great to treat yourself to something pleasurable when you’re cutting out stuff like sweets so that you feel less deprived. The treatment was incredibly relaxing and I love their products — they smell great — so it’s a good sensual experience. And I found that I could really feel the benefits of the lymphatic-draining massage (of the breasts, stomach and face).

A good sensual experience; wait a minute; breast massage? Is that a variation on Thai Massage, but for the ladies and without the stigma of entering the clinic through an alleyway?

For the lymphatic system to drain properly, you basically need to pump the bellows to force the lymph through the series of one-way ducts. There’s no central pump such as the blood benefits from, but there are all these handy muscles placed in good locations to provide all the push your lymph needs. From everything I can find on real medical sites, so long as you don’t have cancer or another disease that affects the lymphatic system, you’re likely doing more to speed the drainage of your lymphatic system through regular muscle movement as part of even light exercise than through an overpriced lymphatic facial.

There’s no way I can look at this paragraph and not see something that the 12 year old me would giggle over; it just reads dirty.

Eng explained how the spa uses Ayurvedic principles in selecting the appropriate oils for each client’s needs. She says the facial and massage are useful at any stage of a detox program. ā€œThe lymph stimulation is physically helpful if the client supports it with increased water consumption and bowel cleansing,ā€ she says, saying that most poor skin conditions are due to ill health. ā€œWe address the necessary skincare and advise on diet and lifestyle care.ā€

You’re paying $105 for a facial and a grope of your breasts.

When do you think that Jean Eng would say is a BAD time for you to part with $105 under any circumstances? You’re also likely to leave the office with a vial or two of those oils, and maybe some other retail impulse buys; and people say that regular doctors are all about the money.

Now, what Ayurvedic principles is Jean using, and would ten practitioners give you the same thing, or is it basically one big guessing game? We don’t know, because so much of alternative medicine practice is completely unregulated, unlicensed, and untrained. All you need to be a lymphatic masseuse appears to be that you think to put it on your business cards.

DETOX DIET There are so many different approaches to the ā€œdetox diet,ā€ it can get a little dizzying. Some folks have great results with juice fasts or the Master Cleanse (that’s the popular 10-day trial of consuming nothing but a lemonade made from lemon juice, maple syrup and cayenne pepper), but I’m pretty attached to chewing. Most holistic health practitioners support periods where you give your digestive system a break by avoiding common allergens like wheat and dairy and stimulants like caffeine and sugar. Once I got into the habit of cooking whole grains every day, I got pretty into it. Bonus: I was never hungry. Talk to a holistic practitioner to find the best program for you.

That dizzy feeling is your body starving. The euphoria that kicks in, and that eventual loss of the hungry feeling? That’s your body acclimatizing to starvation. Cleanses don’t kick start your metabolism; they kill it. Sure, limit or eliminate your caffeine and sugar intake, maybe cut back on calories and processed foods; you’ll feel better too, and not be crippling yourself in the process.

You feel great when you come off your cleanse because wait for it… you’re eating again. A combination of the starvation euphoria, and the return to something approaching a balanced diet lead you to conclude, incorrectly, that you just did something that was good for you.

COLONICS I’ve noticed people are mentioning colonics more often (they were referenced in two HBO shows — Entourage and Hung — this season), so maybe that’s a sign that they’re becoming more mainstream. (I feel like there’s a bad pun here that I will not tease out.) Still, I am sensitive to the fact that the idea of having a hose stuck up your bum is not necessarily an attractive prospect. I’m not going to lie — it can be a challenging situation at times — but I have felt powerfully better after getting them.

So, characters in HBO TV shows mention colonics… this isn’t even an appeal to authority or an appeal to celebrity; this is an appeal to a fictional character? I was watching BBC’s production of Merlin the other day, and they were talking about magical creatures like gryphons and dragons; that doesn’t make them real or good for me.

I’m not going to resist the pun; colonics are crap. That’s it, start to finish crap. There’s nothing in your intestines that regular waste functions aren’t up to getting rid of. If you can swallow it, your gastrointestinal system is going to be able to pass it. This includes bubble gum, steak, and nickels; they all go pretty much right through. There’s no store of undigested meat in your colon, and bubble gum isn’t hanging out for seven years.

You feel better when the hose is removed, just like you feel better once your older brother stops punching you; adrenaline response and little more.

When I went for my sessions with Stacey Smith (who is a registered holistic nutritionist as well as being a colon hydrotherapist) at the newly opened Vitalife (2251A Queen E., 416-849-0004), I hadn’t been for one in years and I’m so glad I went. Smith has a calming manner and is a natural at helping clients feel comfortable.

Smith sounds like a good sales person. How does one become a registered holistic nutritionist? One apparently only has to take classes from a school like the the CSNN, but there doesn’t appear to be a central licensing board, etc.[3]

As to how one becomes a colon hydrotherapist, that seems even less clear. I’ve found some people offering them with designations of CSNN (see [3[), CNP (Certified Nurse Practitioner), RNCP (Registered Nutritional Consulting Practitioner), and other designations.

Stacey in Damian's example lists herself as "Stacey Smith BA, RHN, Holistic Nutritionist and Colon Hydrotherapist" on the Vitalife website[4]. The RHN is a purchased set of initials from a college like CSNN, and the BA could be in anything at all, but it doesn’t typically involve a huge science requirement. As far as calling yourself a Holistic Nutritionist or a Colon Hydrotherapist? As far as I can tell, anyone can do that. So, from now on, you may refer to me as Xinit, Holistic Nutritionist Third Degree, and a purple belt Colon Hydrotherapist. The titles mean nothing, and as far as I can tell, the only licensing they need to pursue is business and tax licensing; cleanliness, etc? Nothing I can find on this.

I asked her about the role of the colonic during detox and she was passionate about their benefits. ā€œWhen you do a cleanse, you’re basically loosening up toxins in the body — these toxins need to be eliminated from the body and colonics are a very effective method of doing so,ā€ she explained, saying this will also help detox symptoms like headaches, fatigue and nausea. (It should be noted that they can also cause fatigue and nausea.)

Toxins, for the most part, aren’t sunk in concrete to be loosened up by cayenne pepper lemonade. If only we could define what these mystery toxins are, where they come from, and then identify them scientifically as they leave the body. I guess that would be too much like real medicine with its science and its facts, thought.

Let’s see if I have this straight detox programs on their own can cause fatigue, headaches and nausea. Miss Smith recommends that washing out your colon can miraculously cure these symptoms… but it can also cause them… May as well pray the headaches away at that point, and save yourself the visit to the tube girl.

ā€œMany people aren’t aware that the number one immunological organ in their body is their colon. Cleansing the colon of toxic wastes prevents the absorption of toxins into the bloodstream, and their spreading throughout the body. The average person can have 10 to 25 pounds of fecal matter in their colon!ā€

Many Registered Holistic Nutritionists aren’t aware of basic biology and science. If the food you’re eating is loaded with these horrible toxins that alternative practitioners keep going on about, you’re already in trouble well before things hit your colon. The colon functions to remove liquid and salt from waste before being expelled from the body. Sure, you might have 10 pounds of food in the process of being digested at any time, but it’s an ongoing process. When Smith words it the way this unlicensed practitioner does makes it sound like it’s a negative thing, when it’s a function of the way the gastrointestinal system works. It’s kind of the same effect as when I call Smith an unlicensed practitioner – while it’s true, it is a biased statement that implies the worst.

Yes, I know, it’s gross. But it’s also damned compelling. While colonic irrigation is gaining acceptance as a health practice, it’s still controversial and it’s important that you feel safe. My naturopath alerted me to the fact that not all methods are as gentle as others (Vitalife uses a system that relies on gravity rather than forced water pressure), so it’s a good idea to talk to a naturopathic doctor if you want more information.

That’s right, folks, it’s gaining acceptance by writers for a comedy show on TV who script their high school teacher character selling sex to pay repair bills. Oh, and that fictional character also gets a tube shoved up his ass to do what nature would do for him on its own time.

It’s not just important that you feel safe, it’s important that you BE safe. The way to BE safe is to speak with a real doctor, even if it is in addition to your naturopathic doctor, shaman, or tarot reader. If you absolutely feel that you need to use services of someone who will inject or remove things from your body, you need to ensure that they are clean, medically competent, and knowledgeable. Without an unbiased authority to judge this, you’re relying solely on the word of the practitioner, and luck, in avoiding infection or damage.

Tattoo parlors have much more strict regulation than does someone who can insert a pressurized hose up your ass. The odds of rupturing something while getting a tattoo are pretty low, and thanks to regulation, and years of good practice, even the roughest tattoo parlor runs like out patient surgery.

“Herbal medicine’s been around for thousands of years! Indeed it has. And then we tested it all, and the stuff that worked became medicine. And the rest of it’s just a nice bowl of soup and some pot pourri.” – Dara O’Briain[5]

[1] I took the quote from Tim Minchin from podblack’s transcription.

[2] I’m not linking it because I don’t want them to get more traffic, even from robots who might visit this page. http://www.naturalhealthtechniques.com/healingtechniques/Dry_Brushing_Technique.htm

[3] http://csnn.ca/programs/rhn-program/rhn-registration/

[4] http://www.vitalifeclinic.com/aboutus.html

[5] Irish comedian Dara Ɠ Briain

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Australian TV on Homeopathic Vaccination

August 26th, 2009 | Category: Homeopathy, anti-vaccination

Have a look at what Australia’s ‘9am with David and Kim’ show has to say on Homeopathic Vaccinations (67MB MPG file). Feel absolutely free to copy and repost this work, or check out Chris’ link to his transcript in PDF format, and post the video elsewhere. It’s already been scrubbed from Youtube, it seems…

The complete transcript follows.

Please, advise of typos, spelling, of Aussie:English translation issues… Bits in italics are my own snark…


The players:

NP: Professor Nikolai Petrovsky, Swine flu vaccine developer
IG: Dr. Isaac Golden, World authority on homeopathic immunisation
DV: David
KM: Kim

(Even the titles people seem in on it… The science guy has a boring title and he’s ‘just’ a professor. The homeopath? He’s a DOCTOR and a WORLD AUTHORITY! Please.)

DV: Nikolai, can we start with you please? As we said, leading infectious disease experts are concerned that the use of multi dose vials could transmit disease. Are they correct in saying that?

NP: Well, when we’re administering a vaccine to healthy individuals, obviously safety is paramount, so even if the risk of transmitting infection using the multidose is very low, we would argue any risk is too much risk. So, as I say, we’re not saying that this is a high risk, but certainly it is a risk.

(it’s at this point that I thought he was going to be the quack… the any risk is too much risk line is something Jenny McCarthy has thrown around)

KM: Alright, I’d like to talk to you about the effectiveness of a swine flu vaccine. How… how does it actually work when it’s a virus?

NP: So, the idea here is that a vaccine mimicks the virus; it actually isn’t a live virus, it’s either a killed virus or in our case with our

(stock video of vaccine bottles with big bold warning at the bottom of the screen, “Vaccine Warning”)

vaccine, it’s actually just one component from the virus. Ah, in that case it triggers the immune system to recognize the virus so that when you do get exposed to the live virus, your immune system is already primed to be able to attack and kill it before it really establishes.

KM: So what happens if it… if it mutates as… as people are suggesting that it is?

NP: Well, the… the concern of course that in the 1918 Spanish Influenza, which is the worst flu epidemic that we’ve experienced. Ah, during the first winter season, in fact, the infection was a bit like we’re seeing with the Swine Flu virus; most people got over it, but there were a few deaths. But then, the second winter season when it came back in a new form, that’s when it was highly lethal, and about 50 million people died with that infection. So, the risk of mutation is there.

DV: Okay, Isaac, given the concerns that have been expressed, is the government being hasty, do you think, in rolling this out already? Should we be looking for alternatives?

(Talk about pitching a softball, while making your face look like you think it’s a hardball…)

IG: Unfortunately, the government’s advisors don’t look at the alternatives that are available, and I know that Dr. Petrovsky and I will probably disagree about efficacy

(Really? You think you’ll disagree about efficacy? Here, have a magic potion…)

because there’s no disagreement about safety

(And what’s safer than pure water… mmmmmm mmmmm)

whilst he is making very good efforts to develop a safer vaccine, you can be even safer still.

(2:30 into the video, and here it really begins)

Now, the reason why the Cuban government in 2007 turned the Findlay (?) Institute which makes vaccines there into manufacturing two and a half million doses of homeopathic immunisation for the disease leptospirosis is exactly the point that Dr. Petrofsky just covered, and that is that as the diseases mutate, one of the problems with vaccination is that there’s a very long lead time to actually accommodate that. The one advantage with the homeopathic option is that because it works on different principles, it’s not an attempt to mimic vaccination. The remedies which are prepared, provided the symptom profile of the disease doesn’t change greatly, can still be used.

(Huh?)

KM: I’m wondering whether, perhaps, part of the attraction of a Swine Flu vaccine is that you can go in an get a jab and it works for everyone, is it possible…

IG: Nothing works for everyone. Ha ha! Nothing on the planet works for everyone!

(Smarmy dirtbag.)

KM: Well is it possible to have a homeopathic remedy mass produced in that sense….?

(You’re asking a homeopath if he can pour enough water into enough bottles at $10 per? Science can still win as long as he doesn’t mention Cuba again…)

IG: Well like I said, the Cubans immunized three provinces which were most at risk because of the massive hurricane damage in 2007 and again in 2008.

(Damn you, Castro! Damn you!)

IG: They immunised over two million people. Two million people. And they did it in about two or three weeks, and the cost, this is the other factor which we need to consider. The cost was about 400,000 American Dollars

(Trucks of water don’t cost all that much.)

IG: Now, when you look at the costs of the vaccines which are being brought on here, our government could literally save hundreds of millions of dollars by looking at and evaluating this option.

(4:10 into the video)

DV: Is there a homeopathic treatment for swine flu?

(Homeopathy can cure ANYTHING, jerk. Stupid host.)

IG: Yes.

DV: What is it? What’s the components of it?

(Isaac smiles broadly, seeing that the host stumbled into his little trap…)

IG: Well… now we need to talk about how you make immunisation for homeopathics, or from homeopathics

(If there were an immunisation from homeopathics, I’d totally take that; would it make homeopaths explode when I came near?)

IG: There’s a number of different options, because homeopathy works on the law of similars, provided we have something which produces similar symptoms, this will be, enable a degree of cover. Now we actually have the swine, what we call the swine flu nosodes and the Findlay Institute in Cuba, and actually Dr. Petrovsky has written a scholarly paper with the person who was leading that; a Doctor Gustavo Bracho who was in Australia in 2004 2005 and worked with Doctor Petrovsky and they actually co-authore a scholarly paper on Malaria Adguvants

(http://malariajournal.com/content/8/1/35/abstract “AFCo1, a meningococcal B-derived cochleate adjuvant, strongly enhances antibody and T-cell immunity against Plasmodium falciparum merozoite surface protein 4 and 5″ — NOT about homeopathy… OH, and Isaac still hasn’t taken a pause; he’s quite the train of thought speaker.)

so the doctor knows who we’re talking about and these are very serious people. They have prepared a swine flu nosodes. They could immunize this whole country within a month and probably at a cost of of a few million dollars as opposed to hundreds of millions of dollars.

(Biggest cost? Fuel to drive the water tankers across the desert? What’s a nosodes? Wikipedia: “Some homeopaths suggest that vaccines be replaced with homeopathic ‘nosodes’, created from biological material such as pus, diseased tissue, bacilli from sputum or (in the case of ‘bowel nosodes’) feces.”)

KM: Do you agree, Nikolai?

NP: So, certainly, we, um… work um…

(Seriously, Nikolai is trying his hardest not to laugh at this point…)

NP: with the Findlay Institute on vaccine development, and they’re the institute that developed the world’s first Meningal cochal vaccine, so they are extremely serious about vaccines. I don’t have any knowledge of any work by the Institute in Homeopathy. Um, but… as I say, vaccines do have 200 years of history and proof of the fact that they work. I would be sticking to vaccines in this instance.

IG: Well, can I just interrupt here and say that vaccination first …

(Wikipedia: “… smallpox inoculation was started in China or India before 200 BC.[1] In 1718, Lady Mary Wortley Montague reported that the Turks had a habit of deliberately inoculating themselves with fluid taken from mild cases of smallpox, and that she had inoculated her own children.”)

IG: … started in 1796. Homeopathic immunisation started in 1798; we also have 200 years of reported and recorded clinical evidence …

(See him roll his eyes there?)

IG: … and the really important point that Dr. Petrovsky just made is that these people at Findlay are serious.

(See what he did there; he’s just claimed that Dr. Petrovsky just agreed that Homeopathy works…)

IG: Now there’s a major scientific paper that’s being published soon and Dr. Bracho and I are actually publishing two papers; one in Australia and one internationally, which will be coming out in the next few months, so the data is there and I’m very happy to send it to Dr. Petrovsky if he’d like.

(Note, he doesn’t say co-authoring… just that there are two people writing two different papers… Happy to send it to Dr. Petrovsky? How about you have it peer reviewed in a medical journal?)

DV: Gentlemen…

KM: We’re out of time, I’m afraid… (chatter)

7 comments

What is it with Jeni and Jenny… ?

February 08th, 2009 | Category: anti-vaccination

Ben Goldacre and his Bad Science blog have landed in some hot water, and been forced to pull a chunk of audio that he was using to illustrate the utter cluelessness of one particular anti-vaccinationist wing nut by the name of Jeni Barnett. Jeni and the radio station that employs her have succeeded in silencing … Jeni’s words … from Goldacre’s site through threat of legal action.

However, other sites have archived and expanded on the piece, and have transcribed and made available the audio and text in a variety of formats from a variety of services.

I’ve collected the six portions of the text into one single post here, and I started with the post made at Sciencepunk, and on through the other 5 parts. I only edited out the inline comments that The Lay Scientist included, and did a tiny bit of reformatting in an effort to put all the text here on one page.

Thanks to the hard work by the 6 sites involved in the transcription;

The Full Transcript:
Part 1 – Science Punk
Part 2 – The Lay Scientist
Part 3 – PodBlack Cat
Part 4 – The Skeptic’s Book
Part 5 – The Quackometer
Part 6 – Holford Watch

…and on with the show…

Posted on: February 6, 2009 12:01 PM, by SciencePunk

Thanks to a sterling effort by a group of dedicated science bloggers and blog-readers, the whole Jeni Barnett MMR radio show has been transcribed for your reading pleasure.Browse it, read it, blog it, be shocked, be amazed, tell your friends, etc etc.OBVIOUS DISCLAIMER: This is a transcript pulled together by lots of people working late into the night. There will be mistakes, I’m sure, so use it as a tool to skim the show before listening to the bits that interest you. A recording of the show is available on Wikileaks, see here. You can also listen to each part via YouTube here.

The timestamps demarcated are relative to individual clips the transcribers worked off (six in total), not the whole show or the YouTube clips. Use them for rough navigation within a particular clip, I’ve tried my best to make it easy to navigate between text and tape. Everything below the fold…

CLIP ONE, 0.00 – 7.00 minutes. Roughly equivalent to this segment on YouTube.

JB: Now, it’s cold, it’s miserable, lots of us are snuffling, lots of us have got viruses, some of us will be affected by it, some of us won’t. Every single time we come round again to ‘measles epidemic’ or ‘infection rates rise in Europe” my first thought is: I’m an independent, individual human being, I have raised a biological child and two logical children. Sometimes their responses to things were worse than others, sometimes children around them had a response that was worse than mine, than my kids. The fact is, the notion that we’re all the same, that you have to be inoculating children with this MMR jab, this debate is going to go on for ever and ever and always at the back of it, in my head is ‘hold on a minute, there’s a drug company that’s making lots of money out of it’. And I always get really anxious when I hear the you know now that we’ve got ‘Banishing measles

TIMESTAMP: 1.00

from Europe in 2010 may have been dashed by poor vaccinations rates in a handful of countries’. you cannot have your cake and eat it. You cannot be putting rubbish and carp in food endlessly and looking at the rise of asthma and obesity and then turn round and not say look what’s happening with measles. You have to approach the whole thing at the health of our children and the health of our society. Now back in the day (and that’s an expression I’ve learned from my [unclear] son), back in the day, children got measles, children got mumps. I’m not suggesting – I am not suggesting – that we got backwards where some children, where we have one in fifteen children die of it. And that one person in fifteen is the one we have to be looking at and wondering why and dealing with it. But if, as a human being, you decide you do not want to give your child a vaccination, you should, in a democracy, have that right to day no.

TIMESTAMP: 2.00

There are some children – whether you like it or whether you do not – that have a response to that triple jabbing that is not good for them. We have evidence, however much people say we don’t, we have evidence that if a child’s immune system is weak; my daughter was one of them, she was very asthmatic as a child, she could not have received that triple vaccine, she couldn’t have done it so I made a calculated decision that I didn’t want to go there. and it isn’t a decision that’s made easily, it’s a lonely decision, if you’re not part of the herd, if your’ not mooing with the other cows or baaing with the other sheep, if you wanting to stand alone, it’s a very lonely business standing under a tree in a field all on your own saying ‘I don’t want to do that’. So I want you to phone me and tell me why you decided against the vaccine and how you’re coping with people saying ‘See! You’re the reason, you are the reason we haven’t banished measles’. I had that said to me by doctor in Canada: ‘You haven’t had your child vaccinated?

TIMESTAMP: 3.00

You’re-’ he left me in the kitchen! He blamed me for the whole measles epidemic. 0-8-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 Why didn’t you have your child vaccinated, how are you coping with the fact that people don’t like you for it, how do you like it when you are, when the study is documenting that 12,000 cases of European measles in the two years spanning 2006 and 2007 means that we are one of the handful of countries in Britain that are not doing it right. Well maybe, maybe there are all sorts of other figures that have been withheld from us, and I don’t know what they are because they’ve been withheld! Measles is a contagious infection caused by a virus. Measles was once common but because of immunisation it’s now fortunately becoming very rare. I want to know from some kind of expert

TIMESTAMP: 4.00

what measles is and what is in the vaccine, and why people have a reaction to it, and really my question is: what is wrong with childhood illnesses? Is it – to hark back to the first hour – because we don’t have parents at home looking after the children? What’s going on? Is there something wrong with having mumps, is there something – you know is it – most people aren’t that one in fifteen. So if you did not have your child vaccinated, why? 0-8-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3 Text me if you decided against having that triple M, and are now dealing with people saying ‘you are responsible for the rise in measles’. Text me on 8-4-8-5-0. We are living in the 21st century, we have running water, most of us have running water, most of us live in better situations than we did when I grew up – I grew up in two rooms with rats and mice in the

TIMESTAMP: 5.00

east end of London. I can remember it. And DON’T email me in – there’s a guy who emails me in to say ‘Oh you just want to be part of the east end’ no, I grew up in St Marks St, thank you very much, born in Mile End Road, and when I go there now I look at it and think blimey that’s my birthright and thank God for that I like it. my feet are rooted in the east end even though my parents were rehoused – rehoused – in council housing, social housing, [go to Youtube Clip 2] that welfare state looked after us poor little immigrant Jews. And we were sent to this lovely house and there we have it. Asthma runs in my family, asthma runs in my husband’s family so my daughter was not inoculated. I, however, have talked to many people over the years – 22 years I’ve lived with my daughter – and over the years many many people have said the same thing, that when we were little, chicken pox, you took your kid to get the chickenpox, you made sure your child was near somebody who had it. My brother got mumps,

TIMESTAMP: 6.00

he lived to tell the tale. I don’t know if we had measles. I was sitting next to Nick Owen on the settee at TV AM when his children were incubating rubella which is measles, and I was pregnant! Now I’m not saying that we shouldn’t be using science and medicine to make everybody healthy, but there’s an obsession now with trying to sanitise absolutely everything, and if your child’s immune system is strong enough it will fight and it will grow and it will be strong. Too many antibiotics and now we have MRSA and superbugs. I’m not an expert, this is what I have observed, phone me: 0-8-4-5-6-0-6-0-9-7-3. If you chose to stand under the tree in the field outside the herd. Tracey in Olympia talk to me…

CLIP TWO

This segment is hosted at The Lay Scientist (with in-line commentary that I’ve removed from this transcript – it’s worth reading at the Lay Scientist site, though)

Tracy the homeopath’s phone call.

JB: Phone me, 08456060973, if you chose to stand under the tree, in
the field, outside the herd. Tracy in Olympia, talk to me.

TIMESTAMP 7:00

Tracy (T): Hi Jeni. Yes, I’d like to totally agree with you the fact that immunisation is totally unnecessary, especially in this day and age when hygiene has changed so much since how it used to be.

I have 4 children. The oldest being 12, the youngest being 3. [Infant noises.] You can probably hear in the background right now.

JB: Don’t talk to me, just talk to her for a second.

Tracy: [Soothes child.] My eldest is 12, my youngest is 3, none of them have ever been vaccinated, immunised. And they’re all very healthy children. They don’t have any auto-immune diseases. They don’t suffer asthma, eczema. I just think [vaccination] is total abuse of the immune system.

TIMESTAMP 8:00

JB: Now, now, now. I want to do this slowly because you’re going to have people phoning in saying you’re utterly irresponsible.

12 years ago when you had your first baby, why did you not have them inoculated?

Tracy: It started off, I went on a short course about, it was a choice, making a choice about vaccination. And it was run by a homeopath.

JB: But why did you go on that course in the first place?

Tracy: Because I had a feeling inside, I inherently knew, that it must be wrong to be putting toxins and poisonous material into a young baby’s body.

JB: Right.

Tracy: It’s as simple as that. Mercury, formaldehyde, you know – live viruses that are cured (?) in monkeys’ kidneys. How can that be right for your child?

JB: Now, are you, by any stretch of the imagination, described as a crank by your friends?

Tracy: No. They all know me too well now.

JB: So, when you made that decision, and when I made that decision 22 years ago, it is about the loneliest decision you’re ever going to make.

Tracy: Oh, absolutely! Even your family, you’ll have people standing up saying,

TIMESTAMP 9:00

“Why? Aren’t you being irresponsible?”. You’ve got the doctors, you’ve got the health authorities…You know you’ve just got to take the bull by the horns and confront that on a daily basis.

People at the school would frown upon me as if my child was in some way was gonna infect their child by not being vaccinated.

But I’m a very strong-willed person anyway. And from what I learned from my first son being born I decided, yeah, I want to take this further, and investigated it a bit more and went on to college and trained to become a homeopath.

JB: Really?

Tracy: Yes. It all came from initially just thinking, “Do I want to so this?” and it all started with that very first thought. And you know what? The more you investigate it, the more you find out about it. And anyone, right now, this moment in time can go on the internet, they can go on sites. They can find out the dangers of vaccination and make their own informed decision.

I’m not saying that for everybody it’s going to be as straightforward and as straight cut as I was able to make that decision myself. But I just knew, from the beginning, that it was the wrong thing to do.

TIMESTAMP 10:00

JB: This is fascinating.

Tracy, let me ask you this. When measles-if there’s a case of measles at the kids’ school, or if there’s a case of mumps or chickenpox-what do you do?

Tracy: I say, “Great! Come on kids – let’s go get it”. Because
children get childhood diseases for a reason. It’s to boost their immune system so that later on in life when they come into contact with those diseases, it doesn’t affect them so severely. And that is why they are called childhood diseases.

The only reason children get really, really ill and perhaps, you know, suffer serious side-effects are if:
a) their immune system is not strong enough to fight off the virus, or b) they are being suppressed by drugs or in some other way. Suppressant drugs or given too much antibiotics or…

JB: Now, now, you see, Tracy. People will hear what you’re saying and they’ll say,

TIMESTAMP 11:00

“It’s all right for you”. As you’ve (quite rightly) said, your
kids-Thank God, touch wood and I’m touching it as we speak-they have run through this. But you are saying it is an individual decision, aren’t you?

Tracy: Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I would never, even in my job, I would never say to people, “You mustn’t do that”. I would give them the facts and say, “This is what I’ve come across. Go on these websites-and there are thousands out there-do your own investigations, don’t take my word for it. You know, everything I say, it may be my truth, it may not be yours. But you must investigate it yourself and don’t take the easy way out”.

I’ve had doctors ringing me at home. I’ve had Health Visitors having angry conversations with me. And now, what I say to those people-whose minds I’m not going to change anyway-that’s fine-I just say, “That’s my choice I’m making and I am making an informed decision”. And every parent has the right to make an informed decision. Unfortunately, not many people do want to do that.

JB: Tracy, I think that with you inspiring them they may jolly well want to after that.

Fantastic. 2:15 and [going to travel segment].

CLIP THREE, starts 6.43 into this clip
This segment is hosted at PodBlack Cat

JB: You just heard from Tracey, four kids, became a homeopath on the back of thinking of whether she should have her first child immunised.

And this is on the back of us being the ā€˜Dirty Land’, really. We are the dirty land of Europe; a new study has documented that we are now up there with the best of the them, with more cases of measles than we should have. They wanted to banish measles from Europe by 2010.

ā€œThere are many other ways of doing it, rather than jabbing people! And I am a responsible parent!ā€ This is from Kay (that was the mail address) – ā€œmy son was fully immunised with MMR; I did not let my younger daughter have the MMR booster. They have been fine until this summer.

My fully immunised son got the mumps, mildly and everyone thought that my daughter would get it worse – guess what, she didn’t get a single symptom! Interesting – that the doctors did not know what to do with the mumps, it had been so long since they’d seen it – they had to look up in their computers or in the manuals to answer my questions about incubation or staying out of circulation.ā€

Now, you heard what our young homeopath said – you’ve always got to hear two sides, you’ve got to make an informed decision – your children will not be the same as anybody else’s children. But I can remember my brother getting mumps and him getting swollen glands and him being given jelly and ice-cream and I can remember running around and NOT getting mumps! And I can remember my mother saying ā€˜we’ve got to be careful, because he’s a boy and you know what happens with mumps …’ – I didn’t know what happened with mumps, who knew? Something to do with the testicular region, well, I didn’t know.

But the fact is that the more we sanitise society and the more we become absolutely – what’s the word – hypocritical about stuff – you cannot support letting our children run riot and not converse with each other and not play and all the other stuff that we’re doing… and then get up in high dudgeon when we don’t put drugs into their body!

Stick the kids out running in air, ban cars on the road, make them have six hours a day PE at school give them an hour every single day where they’re running around playing rounders and walls and not just – a few! My daughter’s beautiful boy Nathan, he’s a footballer and he gets an infection and he falls over – he gets better, because he’s always running and jumping and doing star-jumps or whatever you do!

We have to look at the source of this, and it’s not good for you – you listened to that clip from Nick Ferrari’s program – if you scare-monger, people don’t know how to make clear decisions about some things.

Do you want your kids to have an inoculation or don’t you? Don’t make people feel guilty if you make the decision that they don’t want to have drugs put into them; when I was out in American, eighteen months ago, the only cases of polio that were coming across were the ones where the children had the polio vaccine. And most doctors who were out in the States were not letting their children have it! What does that say to you?

It’s empirical! Empirical wisdom! Experience! [Phone number] How do you make decisions on behalf of your children?

John in Epsom – talk to me.

John: Afternoon Jenny. I’m not a medical expert, but I listen to the radio and I listen to LBC – I listen to your competitors quite a lot. Every single medical expert that you’ve ever had on LBC, always said MMRs are a good thing and all the evidence against them have been refuted.

JB: …yeah.

John: So?

JB: Does that make it right??

John: Well, yeah! I pretty much think it does, actually! Yeah!

JB: How come?

John: Well, you sound like… when you say ā€˜My four kids, this ladies’ four kids’ – you sound like one of those people who say ā€˜My Aunty Flo lived to be a hundred and ten and she smoked a hundred cigarettes a day’! There’s always going to be someone, but in general…

JB: Uh, but wasn’t Aunty Flo ALLOWED to do that?

John: She was, but would she have done it and would you have let her do it, and would the world been happy for her to do it, if we knew now…

JB: What we knew then?

John: What we know now?

JB: But that’s precisely why I didn’t want my kids and my granddaughter and I don’t know what Zowie’s choice is going to be, but that’s precisely because we do know what we know now, that I don’t want to go anywhere near drugs! I’m sixty in eight months time and people ask if I’ll go on HRT – no! Do I want plastic surgery? No! But the media and the drug companies would like to make me unusual!

John: Do you not feel that all this information that’s out there, it is being weighted in a certain direction…

JB: Yeah, to frighten us!

John: No, not to frighten us – look there’s this fellow who was on James O’Brian’s program this week, who’s written a book called ā€˜BAD SCIENCE’…

JB: Right.

John: …and he went on about all the things – like, your previous lady was a homeopath, and with all due respect, the guy talking about BAD SCIENCE was talking about all kinds of things that people regard as remedies, and this guy who is a doctor was laughing at the, um…

JB: [interrupts] Listen, let me put this to you…

John: …the lack of evidence…

JB:
John, let me put this to you – there’s a good point and I take your point. But let me put this to you – my nan, if you had an ear infection, would have put salt in a sock, heated it up, somehow (she didn’t have a microwave), put it behind your ear and good golly, Miss Molly, that ear infection would slow down in some way.

Now, there’s not a lot of science in it, but it blooming well worked!

John: You don’t know that there’s a lot of science in it Jeni?

JB: No, but what I’m saying is that

John: It might be down to heat on the back of the ear…

JB: … of course it is! But you said it yourself, John, scientific evidence and the media, we all weigh things in a particular way, so that we come up with the answer that we want to come up with – if you are funding a vaccine as a drug company, you are going to want to frighten people into having to take it! Because somebody wants to make the money out of it! And it’s all about – it’s all about economics.

And I’m delighted that you listen to LBC, it’s wonderful, because it means that you are listening to both sides.

ā€˜Bad Science’? Absolutely! And you know, Darwin was born a hundred years ago this week and there’s a lot of people who thought Darwin had it wrong.

Things change, John!

Amanda’s in Hayward’s Heath, talk to me, Amanda….

CLIP FOUR, roughly equivalent to the second half of this segment

The segment is hosted at The Sceptics’ Book.

JB: Amanda, talk to me.

Amanda: Hello! Um, I’ve got eight children,

JB: Mazel-tov! Are you still sane?

Amanda: No! Anyway, and I started off, young, about twenty – did all the things you were supposed to do and presented my daughter and she had all her vaccinations and my second daughter had all her vaccinations. Then my son was born and he reacted very badly to the first, and what I think then was the double or triple jab.

Um, so he then didn’t have any more, although he did then have the MMR, well, he did have some more, but he didn’t have any more Whooping Cough. He then had the MMR, um… and then when he was three he was diagnosed with autism. And so I got quite involved in vaccines, because I wasn’t sure, um, my paediatrician was quite sure that it was the cause of the autism, but I mean, I didn’t know.

And from then on, I decided not to have my children vaccinated – I just thought ā€˜better be on the safe side’ – I mean, my paediatrician thought it was great, my GPs weren’t; they were always very unhappy that I didn’t have them vaccinated.
TIMESTAMP: 1.00

JB: Why, why though, that the GPs won’t take on what the paediatrician did??

Amanda: I don’t know! I mean, my paediatrician is great, she’s a very holistic paediatrician – she was the of big chief consultants at a hospital down on the south coast, so she’s a very good paediatrician, but she very much believed in … in just sort of holistically looking after the child. Um, she didn’t like giving drugs for things if you didn’t need it.

JB: But you know, people do throw ā€˜guilt things’, at you, don’t they? They must say to you ā€˜all right, for you, Amanda’.

Amanda: Um…

JB: How do you cope with that?

Amanda: Well, yeah, they probably do, um, … the main thing I found is that my eldest who has everything, she actually had a really bad case of Whooping Cough, about two years ago. And we did get quite a lot of things thrown at us then but she was the one who had been vaccinated. None of my other children picked it up.
TIMESTAMP: 2.00

JB: Now what would you say – I mean, it’s not my job to say to people ā€˜don’t do it’, it’s not my job to do any of that. But you’re allowed to have your say. What would you say to people as a mum of eight little lives that you’re deeply responsible for? What would you say to people who are in two minds about it?

Amanda: Um. Well, I would never recommend having children vaccinated, and people think I’m very strange. But all my younger children who have never been vaccinated have been very, very healthy. Um, the youngest had measles, um, now three months ago. And he was fine, he wasn’t very well for about a week, ten days – and then he was fine, and none of my others picked it up. So, I think they must have a certain amount of natural immunity – and I’m far, far happier for them to have developed that ā€˜natural immunity’ – than to be constantly filled with artificial substances.

JB: Well, thank you so much, my darling, that was Amanda in Hayword’s Heath.

ā€œI was just listening to your show, if people took the time to look at what’s in vaccines, they would think twice about giving them to their children. As well as not being a hundred percent effective, they also have cancer-causing agents.
Timestamp: 3.00
ā€œAlso a child’s immune system takes approximately two to three months to fully get up and running from birth. Also, if we look at the countries that have the highest population vaccinated, you will notice that they have the most allergies. I’m not totally against immunisations, but we should be giving children at least a year to develop their own immune system to deal with the onslaught.ā€

I didn’t say that – I wish you’d given me your name? There’s a third way, says somebody else who’s nameless: ā€œWhy don’t we allow children to have the jabs individually?ā€ Why not? It’s half-past two!

END 3.35

[STATION IDENTIFICATION – ADVERT FOR HER NEXT GUEST]

RESTARTS 4.00

I’ve just got one or two announcements, and there are many of you who want to talk about this measles thing – I get so impassioned about it, because I think it’s about freedom – and I think that self responsibility for your body and children and health is top of the list! You know, early to bed, early to rise, makes you HEALTHY, wealthy and wise! The four-square of life: health, wealth, love, and perfect surface expression!

Where do you go from there? About being healthy – and YOU have to make a decision, don’t you, on behalf of your children! It’s the WORST decision you’ll have to make – should you / shouldn’t you! It’s alright when you’re making it for yourself – but I want you to tell me, why you think we have to have this measles jab and why I’ve got several things I’m going to read out in a minute, why you think it’s not necessary!

And I’ll be talking to a doctor in a moment, and somebody who is pro-jabs, I just have to make two announcements…

[the audience for Jeni Barnett advert]

CLIP FIVE, 0.00 – 11.00 minutes. Starts 30 seconds into this segment

This segment is hosted at The Quackometer Blog

JB: -little band that didn’t do anything. Now they’ve just been signed by FM records – Mazel-tov! – fantastic and their debut EP is going to be released on the 26th of January. Well done Nylonski, fantastic. So the 31st of January if you want to go to the BreastFest it should be really really good. Now, that’s my little announcement – we’ll come back to the discussion. Geraldine in Hampstead, thank you very much for holding the line, you are absolutely pro the jabs, are you?GH: I’m not absolutely pro or anti anything, but before I talk about that can I say I think you radio show is wonderful but isn’t it a little irresponsible to read out a text from somebody you don’t know at all?

JB: I keep saying! You know-

GH: Let me finish.

JB: Go on.

GH: – to say that the vaccinations have cancer-causing substances. Because you will scare new mothers.

JB: Well no no listen-

GH: You don’t know who wrote it-

JB: I don’t, well absolutely not, but it’s an articulate email and I do – you’re absolutely right Geraldine and I think people have to give their names,

TIMESTAMP 01.00

but she was – whoever has written it was the second person to say it. You heard a homeopath saying, if you go to the same, if you go to a website you will find exactly what this email has been written. But I take your point, I don’t know that it’s irresponsible but I take your point. Anyway please continue.

GH: OK the only other thing I wanted to say I think it’s a luxury, it is a luxury that people can not vaccinate their children because the majority do.

JB: Absolutely, I’ll give you that.

GH: I have friends who’ve had polio, because they weren’t vaccinated, I have friends who’s children died of whooping cough, in Eastern Europe, because there were no vaccinations, these are very nasty illnesses.

JB: Are you a medic, Geraldine?

GH: My husband’s a medic, my daughter’s a medic and my grandfather was a medic. And the only other thing I wanted to say was it’s not the drug companies, of course the drugs companies are pushing it, it’s the doctors, it’s the GPs, who see the children that aren’t vaccinated, that do catch the illnesses.

JB: Do you see – I find this fascinating -

TIMESTAMP 02.00

is this a mindset? I don’t come from medicine, you do, I don’t like anything to do with allopathic medicine, and you don’t have an issue with it. Now do you think it’s a mindset that cannot be changed?

GH: I think that science has proved more children survive childhood since the vaccinations have been enforced. Strongly. I’m sorry for the children that do get whooping cough because they were vaccinated and the seventh one that wasn’t vaccinated didn’t get whooping cough. But I do think that modern medicine saves lives. And I repeat what I said: I think it is a luxury of the few, the middle class few – and I couldn’t be more middle class if I tried – it’s a luxury of the middle class few to enjoy homeopathy and all the other things that are wonderful!

JB: Yes but why-

GH: – but alongside regular medicine. And it-

JB: Yes that’s right and I think that it has to be complementary, and I think that debate has to continue,

TIMESTAMP 03.00

because if we’re looking at countries that aren’t as luxurious as ours – what do we do with them?

GH: But children are dying! From whooping cough and measles, or going blind-

JB: But that’s actually Geraldine, my problem, with the hypocrisy of it. If [feedback] – ooh, are you there?

GH: Yeah, I’m here.

JB: If the medical profession absolutely cared, it would be sending drugs freely to countries where they need it. If we’re having to pay for these drugs, it’s not an altruistic thing that’s happening.

GH: No, it’s not, I’m talking about this country.

JB: Yeah but I’m talking about the notion of a drug-fuelled world, where if we’re going to be using drugs, and if some of them are better than others, and some are beneficial and some aren’t, why isn’t it free?

GH: Because big business isn’t free. Because that’s the real world. Sadly, it’s wrong, I think 100% it’s wrong; but it’s not free.

JB: OK, thank you very much, and I’m taking Geraldine’s point,

TIMESTAMP 04.00

do you know what I might not read out your emails ever again unless you give me your name. I think she’s made an absolutely important point and I don’t want to scaremonger. Just give me an initial, say who you are, and then Geraldine, she’s put her finger on it, she’s absolutely right. Rob in Bermondsey, please speak to me.

RB: Good afternoon Jennie

JB: Good afternoon sir.

RB: The very last point that you made, the answer to that is that it’s a geopolitical thing, it’s got nothing to do with the facts of medicine and measles and how measles affects individuals and indeed how the vaccine affects individuals.Ā  Let me give you just a few very basic facts for your listeners.Ā  My background, I’m quite happy to
tell you what I do, I was a paediatrician for a while and then I became a GP, I also do some acupuncture and some complementary medicine so I’m [unclear] to most arguments and can listen to most points that I can during my day.Ā  And the facts of measles are that most people’s experience of measles if their gets measles is that it’s a

*TIMESTAMP 05.00*

mild illness, gives them fever and a rash and mum has to take a few days off work to look after their child, and they get better.Ā  That’s because that’s what happens with most children with measles. Some children however, get very very very serious complications of measles and because the measles rate in the UK is lower – although is now on the increase – most people’s experience is of the mild illness.Ā  AllĀ  you need to do is meet one family whose normal child, they took the decision not to vaccinate their child, they got measles, and they got a devastating complication such as inflammation of the brain which we call encephalitis, or they died, then your opinion changes.

JB: Not necessarily.

RB: Well it may change your-

JH: But you see Rob let me just-

RB: A different level to your-

JB: It’s a different level, I completely take what you’re saying, but I can counter that with: ‘Gave my son MMR, and then watched him

*TIMESTAMP 06.00*

shut down for a week as autism took hold, went from chatty little boy to no speech at all, now lives in his own world, I live with guilt’ – that’s from Paul.Ā  Now I can counter an emotional argument-

RB: Of course I completely appreciate that and people are, and still are, very worried about the links between MMR and even though as Jen, one of your listeners said ‘Every GP who comes on the phone says all of that evidence has been disproved’, it still lingers as a concern, and I meet parents every day who are concerned about that, and it’s very hard to dispel that.

JB: What do you same to them though, what’s your advice?

RB: Well I think, what I take them through is the facts that I started off this conversation with.Ā  The other fact I just want to tie in and I know you’re busy-

JB: No!, you can talk.

RB: Is that vaccination, with vaccinations, some children don’t respond to a vaccination, so some people phone up and they say ‘Look my child’s had this vaccine and still got measles.’Ā  That’s because of the science of the vaccine, after one vaccine of MMR about

*TIMESTAMP 07.00*

90% of children will mount a response to protect them from measles. After the booster – so the second vaccine of MMR – that figure goes to about 95-96%.Ā  That’s about 4% children who’ve had both doses who’ll still be vulnerable.

JB: But there are those [unclear] and if you were [unclear] are you sneezing?!

RB: Yeah; I’m still here.

JB: God bless you darling, gezundheit, how lovely to have you sneezing on air.Ā  If you were my doctor, and I brought in my daughter, I would want to know what side effects there were of these things, and then I would then have to make my decision based on that, wouldn’t I?

RB: Well of course, of course, the other-

JB: And that’s what I think- go on.

RB: The other complicating factor [unclear] vaccine is that, if you’re [unclear] is, as you said through your show, you can make an automous informed decision for yourself once you’re over sixteen.Ā  One your making for your child is a completely different thought process, isn’t it?

*TIMESTAMP 08.00*

JB: Well absolutely, but Paul has said-

RB: [sneezes]

JB: God bless you again my darling, you’re sneezing [unclear]

RB: Yeah, everyone’s given me a cold, people cough in my face and I get a cold-

JB: But you see there’s a point, I’m going to ask you something here.

Have you had the flu jab?

RB: Yes I have.

JB: And still you’ve got the cold?

RB: I’ve got a cold but I haven’t got the flu, I’m not in bed unable to get out for a week.

JB: But why-

RB: That vaccine protects you from influenza, it doesn’t protect you from colds.

JB: You see, I, would there ever be, I mean you say that you give acupuncture and you give all sorts of complementary things, why is measles, in the 21st century, such a hot topic?

JB: Because, I think one of the problems Jennie, the honest [unclear] is that people like – because the measles, mumps and rubella comes as one, people think about each of the individual diseases.Ā  Now rubella really is only a problem in early pregnancy,

*TIMESTAMP 09.00*

as you talked about on your show, and mumps, OK, it can lead to some complications for boys, with their testicles if they get involved, but measles is the one that really does kill.Ā  And it does kill children, and it’s just because the numbers in Western Europe and the States and Australia are lower that we don’t see this so often.Ā  And in fact a few years ago there were children dying in Ireland of measles, I think there were two children, died in Ireland.

JB: And what causes measles?

RB: Measles is caused by a virus, and it’s spread by coughing, it’s spread by sneezing, it’s spread by close contact-

JB: So let me ask you this, I’m sorry to interrupt, but I want to squeeze it out of you, if it’s viral, if childrens’ immune systems are strong-

RB: [sneezes]

JB: God bless you again!Ā  If it’s a viral thing and childrens’ immune systems are strong, what’s the problem?

*TIMESTAMP 10.00*

Is it because our childrens’ immune systems are now so shot that they cannot deal with an ordinary childhood illness?

RB: I don’t believe that to be true, you have three children in a class, one gets a cold, and that child sneezes in his class, over his two classmates, one of them may get a cold and one of them may not, but all three of those children are perfectly healthy, that’s just the nature of disease.

JB: I didn’t say that though. I asking you as a medic, and you’ve got an -ology, and I’ve only got half an -ology,

RB: I have got an -ology [laughs]

JB: [laughs] and an allergy, it sounds like too – if all threeĀ  childrens’ immune system were very very strong, they would deal with it differently, wouldn’t they?Ā  Who’s done that test?Ā  Who’s done that scientific test?

RB: Well I can’t quote you a scientific paper about that, but it’s an observation, isn’t it, that people seem to think that a sanitised country, and the sanitised parts that we live in, is weakening children, that’s why there’s more eczema,

*TIMESTAMP 11.00*

there’s more allergies and this kind of thing, it’s a theory, it’s not-

JB: It’s not science-

RB: You can dig out papers to prove that, you can dig out papers to disprove that, but that’s the same with modern medicine, that you have to weigh it in the balance, and my ending argument really would be, it’s a numbers game, and the numbers are that most children who get measles will get over it, a very few minority get very serious complications.

JB: That’s what needs to be said, and I bless you, Dr Rob in Bermondsey, and actually, he has to go because we’re going to Travel.

CLIP SIX, 37.00 – 44.00 minutes. Starts 2.43 minutes into this segment Note: it’s difficult in this section to discern between Jeni’s comments and points when she is reading other’s letters, exercise caution. This segment is hosted at Holford Watch

JB: It’s 10 to 3. The body is a really delicate organism. The tiniest bit of something can make you go weird. A little tiny bit of caffeine and you can be running up and down the stairs. A little bit of potassium sor…I don’t know-whatever they put in these drinks-can make you itch. The body is a finely-tuned animal. We are animals. Obi in Richmond was looking at his sister’s London County Council Public Health Department Immunisation Record Card from 1966. Between 2 and 4 months of age, she was injected for diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough. 2 to 4 months of age. 8 weeks. That little, tiny body was injected for diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough. Between 6 and 8 months, she was injected for poliomyelitis.TIMESTAMP 38:00

15 months, diphtheria again. 16 months, the smallpox test. 5 years, diphtheria, tetanus and poliomyelitis. “So, my question is”, says Obi, “When did the immunisation for the measles and mumps start? I know that I had an allergic reaction to whooping cough as a baby, so I had no further jabs, not even the BCG at Secondary School. It’s all government spin”, says Obi. “Children don’t need the triple jab.”

And Helen says, “If there’s such a fear of measles epidemic because of lack of take-up of the MMR, why don’t they make it easier to have the jabs individually? That way surely more children would be vaccinated. There seems to be an agenda for reaching a target to wipe out measles by a certain date but at what cost to individuals?”. She concludes, “It’s so difficult for young mums now. You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. It’s such a minefield and you have to live with the consequences of your decision whichever way you vote”.

TIMESTAMP 39:00

And I think that the reason you fill up my telephone-there are no calls being able to come in at the minute- is because you’re phoning is because there isn’t a definitive answer. There is no absolute answer.

As a parent, whether you are male or female, you have to make a decision based on your family history. I took my daughter who kept getting ear infections when she was a kid and one of the doctors said to me, “If you do not give her an asthma spray, and do not do this, that and the other, she will die within a week”. You don’t say that to a young mum, well, I was an old mum but she was only a little person.

Since I had asthma and my mother in law died of asthma and I’ve told you this before, that doctor didn’t take into account where I was coming from. I required him to look in my child’s ear and give me some indication of what was going on so I could make an informed decision.

I, however, am not like Yasmin in Chelsea. You would – what would you have done in that situation?

Yasmin: I’m just wondering how much longer your programme is on air. Because I give hundreds of MMR vaccines

TIMESTAMP 40:00

and all the work that we do in general practice is probably being undone by your programme in 15 minutes and I think it’s very irresponsible.

JB: Why. [Indistinct]

Yasmin: It doesn’t seem to be based on any facts. I’m very sorry to hear that your child had autism but if you…

JB: My child. Yasmin – [not] my child – somebody else’s child had autism.

Yasmin: Somebody else’s child, I’m very sorry to hear that. But if they read the Wakefield study in the Lancet in 1998, Dr Wakefield actually said that he didn’t prove an association between MMR and…

JB: Well he wasn’t really allowed to have his say, was he, Yasmin. He was kinda…

Yasmin: I think he was. I think he said it recently in court.

JB: But you’re not…

Yasmin: I think he’s being tried for medical negligence. I think that your programme is extremely irresponsible. You’re talking…

JB: Ah, let me just ask this…Let me ask you this before you go on with that.

How, if you are so certain that your MMR jab is correct, how can 15 minutes on LBC 97.3 rock what people are thinking?

TIMESTAMP 41:00

Yasmin: Well, you’d be surprised. And at the moment we are expecting a measles epidemic and it’s because of people like Ken Livingstone and people like yourself.

You talk about young mothers who have a very difficult decision to make and, I agree, they do, and I spend a lot of time talking to them. But people like you don’t really make it any easier for them.

And you were just talking about somebody with an ear infection. I’ve been talking to somebody I know who had a child who woke up with the contents of their ear on the pillow and that was down to the rubella virus.

So you really need to think about what you’re doing here and why you’re doing it.

JB: Well, you see, I could argue, Yasmin, that you have to think about it, too. I’m allowed…

Yasmin: I do, every day.

JB: And so do I, as a parent, and that’s what I’m saying.

Yasmin: I’m a parent. And one of my children has had 3 doses of measles [sic. Possibly meant MMR] and there’s no problem with it. You could have a hundred doses of measles [sic. Possibly meant MMR] and it would do nothing.

[Yasmin and JB talk over each other]

JB: But why give them the vaccine if they get the measles? I never can understand that.

Yasmin: We don’t give vaccines to children who have had measles. They need a combined vaccine of measles, mumps and rubella.

TIMESTAMP 42:00

If they have one dose the studies show that they possibly need to be revaccinated within a couple of years to make sure that that protection carries on for life.

JB: Do you not think, though, that as a parent, I am allowed to make a decision about what I put in my kid’s body?

Yasmin: Yes. And do you not think that a parent whose child has cancer and is having chemotherapy and has a much lower resistance to things like measles, mumps and rubella, has a right for their child to go to normal Primary…

JB: Absolutely, absolutely.

Yasmin: A normal Primary School. But because there may be one child in the class, such as yours, who is lucky to have the immunity, that child might get measles, mumps or rubella and die.

JB: Yasmin, my daughter did not have decent immunity which is exactly why I did not have her inoculated.

Yasmin: We don’t. We wait until your child is well and fit enough to give the MMR.

JB: But I don’t want my child to be fiddled with with all sorts of stuff that’s in a vaccine. Now why…

[JB and Yasmin talk over each other]

Let me finish.

TIMESTAMP 43:00

Yasmin: Could you tell me what’s in the vaccine? What do you think is in the vaccine?

JB: No, I can’t.

Yasmin: Then how can you make a decision for your child? You’re taking about parents having to make decisions for the child but if you go into any secondary school, which I have done, we’ve been asked to vaccinate kids against MMR, they all say they want it.

If you’re deny immunisation then you’re denying health to your child and other children.

JB: No, no, no. My child is absolutely strong and healthy in many ways…

Yasmin: Then you’re one of the lucky ones aren’t you? If your kid had chemotherapy…

JB: Listen, listen, listen. Yasmin will you stop…Stop.

Yasmin: You’d want your child to be protected, wouldn’t you?

JB: Stop being so dramatic about it. If you

[JB and Yasmin talk over each other.]

Yasmin: You should think about what you’re doing in this programme. You’re doing a lot of damage. A lot of damage.

JB: Well, maybe. I don’t think so.

Yasmin: You don’t know what you’re talking about. You can’t even tell me what’s in an MMR vaccine so you shouldn’t be talking about it.

JB: Well, I can get it…Shall I get it off the internet, Yasmin?

Yasmin: Yeah, get it off the internet, from a reliable source, the such as the Department of Health

JB: Really?

Yasmin: and then I might listen to you, yeah.

JB: The Department of Health frightens people.

Thanks, Yasmin, for your call.

I think it’s quite interesting. When I was told I had a high blood sugar, I was told in that room I had diabetes. I don’t have diabetes, I have high blood sugar. My blood sugar’s normal now but they frightened me. Which is what people like Yasmin does.

This is LBC 97.3.

3 comments

The Littlest Skeptic

November 25th, 2007 | Category: Credulity, Dog

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If only it were that easy for a simple dog to communicate with the credulous.

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The Gentle Art of Homeopathic Killing – reprint

October 12th, 2007 | Category: Homeopathy

The following article was removed from the original host under threat of a libel suit. Using a trick that the alternative practitioners often accuse Big Pharma of, the British Society of Homeopaths is becoming what they hate. Under British law, the plaintiff is easily favoured in the case of libel. This is something of a surprise considering the sheer amount of tabloid journalism that you see coming from the Isles.

So, the Society of Homeopaths used the laws available to them and threatened Canard’s ISP. It’s not unlike every time I’ve debated a homeopath supporter; eventually they run away promising to return with Conclusive Proof or with Daddy, to shut down the argument. The SoH would appear to BE the thugs and criminals that they see in Conventional Medicine and Big Pharma. I guess it’s a case of having to be a criminal in order to recognize one.

Thanks to Respectful Insolence for the update on the story, and links to the Google Cache… it made reproducing the allegedly libelous article in whole much easier.

I say we organize a globe trotting trip for all the Homeopaths in the SoH, and allow them only homeopathic potions to protect them from malaria, typhus, bird flu, and whatever other deadlies we can arrange for them to run into in northern Africa. A swim in polluted water, a trip to a mosquito infested swamp in the middle of the summer malaria upswing, and maybe some meals of local delicacies involving broiled monkey. It will be a true test of Homeopathy if the Society will send its members out like this. Hell, let’s make it a variation on Survivor; Big Pharma will take their malaria meds, and the SoH team will imbibe only magical elixirs. 39 days; outlast, outplay, outlive.

— Quote begins;

The Gentle Art of Homeopathic Killing

Thursday, August 16, 2007

The Society of Homeopaths (SoH) are a shambles and a bad joke. It is now over a year since Sense about Science, Simon Singh and the BBC Newsnight programme exposed how it is common practice for high street homeopaths to tell customers that their magic pills can prevent malaria. The Society of Homeopaths have done diddly-squat to stamp out this dangerous practice apart from issue a few ambiguously weasel-worded press statements.

The SoH has a code of practice, but my feeling is that this is just a smokescreen and is widely flouted and that the Society do not care about this. If this is true, then the code of practice is nothing more than a thin veneer used to give authority and credibility to its deluded members. It does nothing more than fool the public into thinking they are dealing with a regulated professional.

As a quick test, I picked a random homeopath with a web site from the SoH register to see if they flouted a couple of important rules:

48 • Advertising shall not contain claims of superiority.
• No advertising may be used which expressly or implicitly claims to cure named diseases.

72 To avoid making claims (whether explicit or implied; orally or in writing) implying cure of any named disease.

The homeopath I picked on is called Julia Wilson and runs a practice from the Leicestershire town of Market Harborough. What I found rather shocked and angered me.

Straight away, we find that Julia M Wilson LCHE, RSHom specialises in asthma and works at a clinic that says,

Many illnesses and disease can be successfully treated using homeopathy, including arthritis, asthma, digestive disorders, emotional and behavioural difficulties, headaches, infertility, skin and sleep problems.

Well, there are a number of named diseases there to start off. She also gives a leaflet that advertises her asthma clinic. The advertising leaflet says,

Conventional medicine is at a loss when it comes to understanding the origin of allergies. … The best that medical research can do is try to keep the symptoms under control. Homeopathy is different, it seeks to address the triggers for asthma and eczema. It is a safe, drug free approach that helps alleviate the flaring of skin and tightening of lungs…

Now, despite the usual homeopathic contradiction of claiming to treat causes not symptoms and then in the next breath saying it can alleviate symptoms, the advert is clearly in breach of the above rule 47 on advertising as it implicitly claims superiority over real medicine and names a disease.

Asthma is estimated to be responsible for 1,500 deaths and 74,000 emergency hospital admissions in the UK each year. It is not a trivial illness that sugar pills ought to be anywhere near. The Cochrane Review says the following about the evidence for asthma and homeopathy,

The review of trials found that the type of homeopathy varied between the studies, that the study designs used in the trials were varied and that no strong evidence existed that usual forms of homeopathy for asthma are effective.

This is not a surprise given that homeopathy is just a ritualised placebo. Hopefully, most parents attending this clinic will have the good sense to go to a real accident and emergency unit in the event of a severe attack and consult their GP about real management of the illness. I would hope that Julia does little harm here.

However, a little more research on her site reveals much more serious concerns. She says on her site that ’she worked in Kenya teaching homeopathy at a college in Nairobi and supporting graduates to set up their own clinics’. Now, we have seen what homeopaths do in Kenya before. It is not treating a little stress and the odd headache. Free from strong UK legislation, these missionary homeopaths make the boldest claims about the deadliest diseases.

A bit of web research shows where Julia was working (picture above). The Abha Light Foundation is a registered NGO in Kenya. It takes mobile homeopathy clinics through the slums of Nairobi and surrounding villages. Its stated aim is to,

introduce Homeopathy and natural medicines as a method of managing HIV/AIDS, TB and malaria in Kenya.

I must admit, I had to pause for breath after reading that. The clinic sells its own homeopathic remedies for ‘treating’ various lethal diseases. Its MalariaX potion,

is a homeopathic preparation for prevention of malaria and treatment of malaria. Suitable for children. For prevention. Only 1 pill each week before entering, during and after leaving malaria risk areas. For treatment. Take 1 pill every 1-3 hours during a malaria attack.

This is nothing short of being totally outrageous. It is a murderous delusion. David Colquhoun has been writing about this wicked scam recently and it is well worth following his blog on the issue.

Let’s remind ourselves what one of the most senior and respected homeopaths in the UK, Dr Peter Fisher of the London Homeopathic Hospital, has to say on this matter.

there is absolutely no reason to think that homeopathy works to prevent malaria and you won’t find that in any textbook or journal of homeopathy so people will get malaria, people may even die of malaria if they follow this advice.

Malaria is a huge killer in Kenya. It is the biggest killer of children under five. The problem is so huge that the reintroduction of DDT is considered as a proven way of reducing deaths. Magic sugar pills and water drops will do nothing. Many of the poorest in Kenya cannot afford real anti-malaria medicine, but offering them insane nonsense as a substitute will not help anyone.

Ironically, the WHO has issued a press release today on cheap ways of reducing child and adult mortality due to malaria. Their trials, conducted in Kenya, of using cheap mosquito nets soaked in insecticide have reduced child deaths by 44% over two years. It says that issuing these nets be the ‘immediate priority’ to governments with a malaria problem. No mention of homeopathy. These results were arrived at by careful trials and observation. Science. We now know that nets work. A lifesaving net costs $5. A bottle of useless homeopathic crap costs $4.50. Both are large amounts for a poor Kenyan, but is their life really worth the 50c saving?

I am sure we are going to hear the usual homeopath bleat that this is just a campaign by Big Pharma to discredit unpatentable homeopathic remedies. Are we to add to the conspiracy Big Net manufacturers too?

It amazes me that to add to all the list of ills and injustices that our rich nations impose on the poor of the world, we have to add the widespread export of our bourgeois and lethal healing fantasies. To make a strong point: if we can introduce laws that allow the arrest of sex tourists on their return to the UK, can we not charge people who travel to Africa to indulge their dangerous healing delusions?

At the very least, we could expect the Society of Homeopaths to try to stamp out this wicked practice? Could we?

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Originally from , by way of Google’s Cache

9 comments

What? No Crocmunks? Damn it.

September 11th, 2007 | Category: Creation, Evolution

atlas-of-creation-crocmunk.jpg

“All the living creatures in the fossil record appear intact and in their perfect forms. For instance, before crocodiles and squirrels, there exist no fossils belonging to any strange creature partly resembling a crocodile, and in other parts to a squirrel or other living creatures. Squirrels have always remained squirrels, and crocodiles have always remained crocodiles. All these facts reveal that the claim of the theory of evolution, that “Living beings have gradually evolved over millions of years of time” is simply a product of imagination.”

This seems to be the biggest ‘fact’ proclaimed by the Harun Yahya’s epic Creationist propaganda piece “Atlas of Creation.” There are no transitional fossils of any sort, no bridge between any species, and all living animals are the way that they have always been. I think that a Crocmunk (crocodile / chipmunk of course) would be a great pet; good security around the house, and cute with its erratic scampering.

“Some fossils preserve only certain parts of living beings’ bodies. Pictured is a 15-million-year-old trout tail. As is seen, there is no difference between a trout tail 50 million years old and one that’s 15 million years old and one that ’s alive today.”

Plenty of examples of marine life and trees that ‘prove’ evolution is complete fraud and conspiracy by evil scientists by simply not changing for millions of years. We can’t see any branching or speciation when we’re only looking at two examples; one fossil and one current model. Many of the examples of perch and trout provided have fins that look noticeably different between fossil and contemporary example, with one missing a dorsal fin entirely in the fossil. The sunfish shown doesn’t even bear any similarities in fin configuration to the fossil…

There are plenty of transitional fossils that have been well documented, but these are ignored entirely, or merely explained away as coincidentally similar appearing, separately created animals that have gone extinct.

“This insect, no different from those living today, is evidence that all living beings have been created.”

There’s an example of a lobster fossil with a description about how it remains unchanged today;

Fossils that were gathered in the last 150 years proved that living species never changed or evolved from one another. This fact is underscored by this 146- to 65-million-year-old fossil of a lobster, no different from its counterparts alive today.

The primary claw looks significantly different to modern lobsters, based on the photo of the fossil they chose to use to illustrate this point; the larger portion of the claw appears to be longer and narrower. I’d want to see a better copy of the fossil before stating that they were completely unchanged.

There’s a pair of side-by-side examples with a winged ant and a pseudoscorpion that have the images swapped, which is amusing in a book aimed at showing how wrong evolution scientists are.

After pages and pages of pictures of fossils that bear resemblances to current, living animals, the author goes into explanation of how Darwin is responsible for Communism, Fascism, racism, terrorism (and the 9/11 attacks on the United States);

Actually, when Darwinism is taken away, no philosophy of ‘conflict’ remains. The three divine religions that most people in the world believe in, Islam, Christianity and Judaism, all oppose violence. All three religions wish to bring peace and harmony to the world, and oppose innocent people being killed and suffering cruelty and torture. Conflict and violence violate the morality that God has set out for man, and are abnormal and unwanted concepts. However, Darwinism sees and portrays conflict and violence as natural, justified and correct concepts that have to exist.

For this reason, if some people commit terrorism using the concepts and symbols of Islam, Christianity or Judaism in the name of those religions, you can be sure that those people are not Muslims, Christians or Jews. They are real Social Darwinists.

It goes on, quoting Darwin, Steven Jay Gould, and a host of other scientists out of context and making leaps of faith like I’ve rarely seen before. It’s hard to read much of this book, but if you’re insane or looking to make yourself so, it’s available online if you’re not one of the lucky scientists that were mailed free copies of this volume of nonsense.

No comments

Non-skeptical skeptics of the religious sciences

September 10th, 2007 | Category: Creation, Evolution, Religion

For giggle, I joined a Facebook Group for Red Deer based skeptics. They needed a bit of help in boosting the discussion and getting things moving, so I thought I’d stop in and see what would shake loose. Well, we found a True Believer who claims to be a skeptic… my favorite type of believer, to be honest.

The whole thread can be found at Facebook still, but for my own sake I’m clipping some of my own responses here in the event I need to use similar bits again.

Chris starts off with:

To make things plain, the reason I find creation much more plausible is due to the massive holes found it evolution (and they are massive!).

The second thing is to call evolution a science and creation a religion is shear non-sense. They are BOTH a religion. Neither can be proved. Both must be BELIEVED.

You don’t call science a religion and get away with it if I can help it; they’re not even close to being similar things. From this point, I’ll just paste my own pieces that stand on their own to some degre. There were other comments that were direct one-liner questions or replies that I’m not including as they aren’t complete.

I’m a fan of #8, personally.

*** 1

There is one common misconception that keeps popping up in these evolution vs. creationism “debates”; that these two topics are even comparable, let alone that they are mutually exclusive.

Evolution does not address, nor claim to address the following:

  • the origin of the universe
  • the origin of life on our planet

It is not logically impossible that evolution took over after the point of initial creation of life, whatever that spark came from; god or random organization of atoms.

Ask a farmer about artificial selection; breeding cows for a specific trait such as higher milk production, or sheep for thicker, better wool. This is evolution in a visible, real way. Natural selection merely removes the hand of man in the equation, such as with Darwin’s finches, in a geographically restricted environment.

This is evolution; the gradual genetic change and adaptation of beings over the course of generations to a more perfect form for their environment.

As for belief, anyone with a jar full of fruit flies can witness evolution in their own kitchen. There is no room, nor need for belief in this scenario; it’s raw data that adds evidence to evolution being viable.

You don’t have to believe in the evidence of science, but I would suggest that those who don’t forgo such impossible beliefs as modern medicine and the computer.

*** 2

Evolution has nothing to do with where light comes from, or where life itself comes from; it’s outside the scope.

You may as well expect an answer on why plants grow from a repair manual for a Dodge Dart.

*** 3

The evolution of life is entirely distinct from what you’re referring to as “cosmic evolution”, or the creation of the universe. So-called cosmic and organic evolution are entirely separate fields and different arguments.

Of course it’s ludicrous to suppose that a chicken would birth a dog, or grow a limb spontaneously from another species. This is a gross misunderstanding of the evolutionary process that often is tossed out by the creationist in such a discussion.

The only type of evolution that you will hear discussed by scientists is what you refer to as “variation”, also termed micro evolution by some non-scientists. Evolution as far as science is concerned is a slow process, that is visible over many many generations. Speciation is even slower, on the order of thousands of generations.

Science can be proven wrong through experimentation and direct observation, while religion can not really be disproved, as God or miracles or the existence of an afterlife are not generally falsifiable concepts; no amount of experimentation or observation can provide evidence to logically disprove them. This is where science is different, as each of the claims made are fully falsifiable.

This isn’t to say that the claims are false or likely false, but that the claims are subject to testing and observation which could conceivably prove them wrong. Religion, faith, heaven, and creation aren’t falsifiable concepts, and are distinct from science.

A scientist doesn’t have faith that gravity exists or acts on bodies in space; he has experimental data, all of which is logically falsifiable.

*** 4

I’m thinking that you aren’t even wanting to agree on definition of terms here, so I’m not sure how any discussion will progress…

The only people who believe in the macro-evolution you refer to are people who believe in creationism; more specifically they believe that scientists believe it. Scientific consensus does not now, nor has it ever, suggested that one creature spontaneously gives birth to a whole new species, phylum, or class of creature.

Find me a scientist that will agree with your assertion that science claims that spontaneous speciation occurs. You are taking one claim, that speciation, “Speciation is the evolutionary process by which new biological species arise.”

Often this is a result of geographical isolation; the birds on one side of the mountain possess these traits, and the birds on the other possess these traits. They evolved from a common ancestor, but over time have become separate species.

To suggest that a fruit fly could “turn into” a human is a ridiculous exaggeration. A 2 winged, red eyed fruit fly could beget a wingless variant and a winged variant, that continue to breed offspring similar to themselves. They might eventually be classed as separate species, but they both remain well away from the subphylum that homo sapiens occupy. Speciation may be observable in the lab under certain conditions, but the creation of whole a whole new subphylum? Not yet.

There is only one type of evolution that any scientist would suggest were real, and that’s what you’re referring to as micro-evolution or variance.

I suppose you have evidence of a teacher teaching that a cat has borne a dog or similar “macro evolution”?

*** 5

Macro-evolution has two main definitions as I’ve seen it; that of the scientific and the non-scientific. The scientific will allow macro-evolution as evolution that is the “compounded effects of micro-evolution.” This is not something that has been observed in the lab, but that has been THEORIZED based on fundamental similarities between different groups; apes and humans, hippos and whales, etc. This is not a belief, but a set of working theories that have evolved over time.

My suggestion that people don’t teach macro-evolution is based on your “Fly gives birth to a human” example, which I would also argue against being taught. I haven’t seen a high school text book in quite some time, but I happen to have recently acquired a new intro level college biology text, so I’ll take a flip through that to see what the current state is there. I don’t expect to see spontaneous macro-evolution there, but who knows?

*** 6

Quoting myself:

“The only people who believe in the macro-evolution you refer to are people who believe in creationism; more specifically they believe that scientists believe it. Scientific consensus does not now, nor has it ever, suggested that one creature spontaneously gives birth to a whole new species, phylum, or class of creature.”

I am referring to the kind of macro evolution you mention…. no scientist believes in this. Macro-evolution is a term applied to the effects of many speciation events; it is not an immediate, spontaneous event, and does not cause a link between a fruit fly and a human, no matter what you might think.

Twyla: my question regarding the age of the universe was specifically to see if we we dealing with a universe that is billions of years old or one that is only 6000 years old.

Let’s play “Spot the logical fallacies”!

See if you can find the following in this short thread:

  • Hasty generalizations
  • Appeal to consequences
  • Argument from incredulity
  • Appeal to ridicule
  • Appeal to probability
  • Others?

*** 7

“Science (from the Latin scientia, ‘knowledge’), in the broadest sense, refers to any systematic knowledge or practice. In a more restricted sense, science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research.” — Wikipedia on Science

Creation Science… where is the scientific method? Where is the body of knowledge? Even in the broadest sense of the word, there is no science in Creation.

As for being skeptical, the whole point of skepticism is not accepting anecdotal stories as evidence. The stories of the bible do not provide scientific evidence of any sort, and so is useless in determining the age of the Earth, the origin of life, or how life has evolved. What we do have as evidence is a boat load of radiometric data that establishes the age of the Earth quite well, as well as the age of fossils. We have geologists and biologists and astrophysicists and all sorts of -ists that have been working independently over centuries, adding to a wealth of knowledge about the world around us.

If Creation “Scientists” have evidence outside of the bible, they have been hiding it well. Please enlighten us as to the body of evidence that we’re missing.

*** 8

Chris: “I will openly admit that Christianity, and the Bible are religious. One must BELIEVE them to be true. Evolution is a religion masked as a science.”

Things I accept on “faith”:

  • There is a Paris, France
  • That 2+2 is, in fact, equal to 4 under most circumstances
  • That there is a planet slightly further out from us in the Solar System that we call Mars
  • That the sun is a huge ball of fusing hydrogen
  • That 2000mg of caffeine will stop the human heart
  • That anthrax can kill you if you snort enough of it
  • The moon will not come crashing down tomorrow, no matter how much I want to avoid work
  • That people continue to exist once I leave the room
  • Removing the brain from the skull is almost always fatal

There are whole reams of things every day that you end up taking based on the advice of authority alone. This is not in question. Why do we believe some things without questioning?

Empirical evidence.

I can look up a mathematical proof to show how 2 and 2 sum, if I so choose to question it. I can go to school and study hard and become a doctor in order to see what happens when you remove a brain. All of these things are verifiable to a certain degree of confidence, should you have the time and the inclination to do so. There is such a huge volume of data in the earth sciences that no one person could digest it all or understand it all, so some of it you’re going to have to trust to the experts or risk losing your mind.

The key is that it’s POSSIBLE to find the evidence, and with effort, all of that evidence and all of those theories are falsifiable. You might have to yell and scream and make pretty graphs, but with empirical data, you can sway people to your side of the argument.

Can I find an independent record of the loaves and fishes? Perhaps an independent witness to Moses descending the mountain with the tablets? How about someone to swear an affidavit to the whole resting on the seventh day thing? There’s no empirical evidence, and until there is hard data on creation, it remains non-scientific.

Again, as I do with my more common discussion “opponents” in the energy healing sector, I invite a single source of hard data to show that creationism should be allowed within 100 yards of science.

*** 9

I thought that this summed up the “Why Science isn’t a religion” argument well enough….

http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyofscience/p/ScienceReligion.htm

“Calling science a religion should be instantly recognized as an ideological attack rather than a neutral observation of facts. Sadly this is not the case, and it has become far too common for critics of modern, godless science to claim that it’s inherently a religion, thus hoping to discredit scientific research when it contradicts genuine religious ideology”

*** 10

Using the word “science” while not utilizing the scientific method is disingenuous at best, and a bold lie at worst.

One of the theories used to support the existence of large insects (I’m not sure about mammals) is the high concentration of oxygen in the atmosphere.

At best a dome of water over the earth would have to ignore something called gravity, but assuming that there was a “sea above the sea” how would that contribute to larger animals through reduced radiation?

One of the reasons that I ask for empirical data from people I have discussions with is that they’re the subject matter experts in their field as far as I know. I have no idea where the “pro Creation Science” data is stored, and Google is of little help in finding raw data. I can find plenty of Kirk Cameron videos, but little quantitative data.

On a side note aren’t creationists just a little bit embarrassed to have Kirk and Rev. Comfort on their side after that banana video?

3 comments

The Bible Poster

July 29th, 2007 | Category: God

biblenoah.jpg


Because all the works of science cannot equal the wisdom of cattle-sacrificing primitives who thought every animals species in the world lived within walking distance of Noah’s house

Found elsewhere

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I received a vision today

July 15th, 2007 | Category: Non-skeptical, Visions

IMGP5319.JPG

Lamb Chop appeared to me on a concrete wall and gave me a vision of exactly what’s wrong with the world. A real miracle, and the picture above is PROOF!

Bad news is that there’s a lot of killing to be done in the names of Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop. There’s going to be some fierce puppet retribution leading in to the End Times, people.

1 comment

One dose of 200C Homeopathic Water! Stat!

July 10th, 2007 | Category: Homeopathy

The aliens or the angels were here!

July 09th, 2007 | Category: Aliens, angels

aliens-2.jpgaliens-1.jpg


I had my camera last night on the way back from the office, which is good, because it would seem that my alien visitors were gone by the time I could get a witness to go outside and verify my story. Isn’t it always the way? You see something spectacular that PROVES the existence of aliens and angels and God and that Global Warming is bogus, and you can’t get a witnes.

Of course, taking a picture of a tiny little light in the sky with a digital camera is a bit of a pain. They’re not the best at dealing with low light situations, so images can be open to a fair amount of interpretation. Is that photo with the little blurry blobs evidence of ghosts? Does the one with the blurry line show a ghostly species of rods? Does my green light photo show an alien ray lifting people up for anal probing?

Initially I was surprised to see a green glow in the clouds; it was dim and diffuse, like the last time I saw the Aurora Borealis, but that was in Alberta; I haven’t seen the Northern Lights in over a decade. The clouds shifted a little bit, and a non-organic shape emerged; a beam! Rat bastard aliens.

I switched off the auto focus on the camera, set the speed to 3200, and after editing, the above two images are the best you get. The beam appeared to originate somewhere on the Dalhousie campus; or terminate there if you’re into the alien theory. In reality it would appear to be a green laser… it wasn’t moving visibly, so I’m assuming that it was mounted in some way; telescope aiming, navigation, broken Pink Floyd laser show?

Update: Okay, it’s just LIDAR.

1 comment

Diluting Homeopathy

July 02nd, 2007 | Category: Homeopathy, Pseudoscience

CC 2.0 BY license. Shot by neubildung and available from http://flickr.com/photos/30152516@N00/279269439/

Please note; there is math ahead performed by someone (me) with the loosest grasp possible on arithmetic andĀ chemistry. Please, if my numbers are offĀ by anyĀ degree, let me know and I’d gladly correct them. Thanks.Ā 

I once thought that the way to make money from homeopathic tinctures was through buying distilled water, and putting it into nice bottles with pretty labels, and selling those little bottles for $10 each. I’d even include a warning stating that the bottles contained absolutely no medicinal properties, and contained 100% distilled water. It would be a positive gold mine, even without the warning, as there is no way of testing a homeopathic remedy for effective ingredients, and so fraud could never effectively be proved in a court of law. However, I think that the real money is in ‘pure’ sea water, though, as it’s positively loaded with infinitesimal quantities of all sorts of things; maybe I’d even go with a name like Deep Sea Homeopathic Holistic Water.

I know people who purchase homeopathic products, and I was trying to come up with a good example to try to lay out the pure numbers on this, to try to show that what they’re buying is little more than diluted snake oil, with very little actual snake oil in it. I’ve seen proofs on web pages, but they tend to rely on numbers that other people have given, accepting them as gospel, and I wanted to know exactly how many atoms of something were in each bottle of 200C Snake Oil. I’m really surprised at just how little there is, and I think that the best example I can use to illustrate this is by turning the entire volume of Earth’s oceans and seas into a homeopathic cure. After all, covering 70% of the surface of the planet has to be a pretty visible metaphor.

“One approach is to use homeopathic remedies to target the tumors themselves. In this case, the homeopath selects remedies which match the symptom picture of the tumor itself (e.g. Conium Maculatum for hard immovable tumors that develop slowly). Homeopaths using this approach might also consider other symptoms (such as the individual’s food cravings, disposition, etc), but their primary focus is to target the tumor and reverse its growth. Some physician homeopaths also give remedies at the tumor site itself (in the form of an injection) to more aggressively stimulate a response. ” — The Cancer Cure Foundation

Conium Maculatum might be more recognizable to people as Poison Hemlock; the state poison of ancient Greece. Now, hemlock does have sedative and antispasmodic properties in small doses, so it’s not all about killing philosophers.

“To produce different remedy potencies, the mother tincture is diluted in an alcohol/ water mixture according to one of two scales, the decimal (x) and the centesimal (c). Between every stage of dilution the diluted tincture is succussed (shaken vigorously) in the decimal scale the dilution factor is 1:10 and in the centesimal it is 1:100. To produce a 1c potency of the allium remedy for example, one drop of the mother tincture is added to 99 drops of an alcohol/water mixture and succussed. To produce a 2c potency, one drop of the 1c mixture is added to 99 drops of an alcohol/water mixture and succussed. The number of a homeopathic remedy shows how many times it has been diluted and succussed, for example, Allium 6c has been diluted and succussed six times.” — Healthy New Age

ABCHomeopathy.com lists a 15mL, alcohol-diluted bottle of “3X” Hemlock for $8.99 and explains the different potencies of dilutions “Chronic illnesses should be treated with high potencies (30x-200c) and acute conditions with low potencies (6x or 6c)… Really high potencies such as 200C.” See, the more you dilute something, the stronger it is. The lower the chance that there is even an atom of Hemlock in that bottle, the more powerful it is…

“DECIMAL – potency based on the ratio of 1 part substance to 10 parts dilution. Designated with a X (in Europe designated with a D) after the remedy name. X potencies are considered low potencies. X potency is often used for children, sudden illness and first aid treatment.
CENTESIMAL – potency based on the ratio of 1 part substance to 99 parts dilution. Designated with a C (or left blank in Europe) after the remedy name. C potencies are considered medium potencies. C potency is often used for seasonal problems and chronic conditions.
MILLESIMAL – potency based on the ratio of 1 part substance to 1000 parts dilution. Designated with a M after the remedy name. M potencies are considered high potencies. M potency is used by practitioners for constitutional treatment.”Elixirs.com

Back to sea water. Using numbers from a 1968 publication, it appears that there are 0.0009 ppm of Copper, 0.021 ppm of Barium, and 0.0026 ppm of Arsenic in your average sample of sea water (Sea Friends – a part per million can be seen as mg / L); these are all valuable homeopathic tintures on their own, and would likely need to be diluted even further in order to approach the “potency” of a 200C mixture.

So, for the “C” scale, the Mother Tincture is a 1:100 mixture of water and/or alcohol to the essential ingredient. Let’s just say we start with a gram of the active ingredient and it’s diluted in a Liter of liquid; 1g/L. This isn’t exactly how the dilutions are made, as they tend to refer to “drops” of the tincture to solvent, but as you’ll see in a second, once the numbers get to where they are going, the difference in volume between a 1 mL ‘drop’ and a full Liter are insignificant. Even a kilogram of product diluted into a Liter of water to make the Mother Tincture, were it even possible, would yield little more effective compound in the 200C dilution.

Nevertheless, (in my experience) in cases of deep pathology (such as cancer), most patients have a profound level of resistance to feeling their feelings. Usually this is because of a built-in survival mechanism which protects them from feeling feelings which could destablize them and/or be more destructive than the disease itself (e.g. suicidal feelings). As a result, patients with deep pathology will tend to either have very moderate reactions to homeopathic remedies (because of the built in protective mechanism), or the remedies will release thoughts, emotions, and memories which are extremely toxic and destabilizing. In either case, there is strong initial resistance to the release process.

When patients are able to release suppressed toxic emotions (via homeopathy or other means), the optimal scenario is for the patient to work with accompanying practitioners (psychotherapists, counselors, healers, etc). Some homeopathic practitioners will provide some support, but often other professionals are needed. ” — The Cancer Cure Foundation

C indicates a power of 100, and X indicates a power of ten. 6X actually refers to a 106 dilution, not the 1:6 most people would assume. As 106 and 1003 are mathematically identical, a 6X dilution is scientifically, atomically, identical to the 3C product.

Assuming that you take the full 1 Liter of Mother Tincture and produce the absolute maximum volume you can of a 200C solution, you’re looking at a huge resulting volume.

1C dilution is the mother Tincture diluted by 1:100; resulting in 100L of solution
2C is diluted from 1C at 1:100 to yield 10,000L (1002)
3C is diluted from 2C at 1:100 to yield 1,000,000L (1003)
200C is the same thing again, 198 steps later, where we’re now at 100200 L of solution

That’s 100200, or a google2, or with all the zeroes;

10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 L

All of the world’s oceans and seas contain an estimated 1.370 * 1021 L of water, or

1,370,000,000,000,000,000,000 L (Encarta)

What if we were to take that gram of initial product and dilute it to fill merely all of the world’s oceans? The resulting mix could be labeled as approximately “10.5C”, as 1.370* 1021 is mathematically the same as 1.370 * 10010.5.

10010 == 100,000,000,000,000,000,000 L
10011 == 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 L

Diluting that gram of initial product to somewhere between 10C and 11C would referred to as a medium or high potency dilution according to sources I’ve found.

1.370 * 109 km3

1.370 * 1021 L

1 cubic kilometer = 1,000,000,000,000 (1012) L

By way of explanation, let’s take something inert like sand and make that into a homeopathic remedy to cure… oh, I don’t know. Let’s say this dilution will cure sun burns, because those have been seen to occur on sandy beaches.

We’ll use a gram of pure Silica sand, finely ground of course, with the chemical formula SiO2; composed of 1 Silicon atom, and 2 Oxygen atoms.

How much does this molecule weigh? Well, Silicon weighs 28 atomic units, and Oxygen weighs 16 atomic units, for a total of 60 atomic units

Thanks to high school chemistry and the periodic table, we know that there are 6.023 x 1023 atomic units in a gram. From there we can find that there are 6.02 x 1023 / 60 = 1.00 x 1022 SiO2s in a gram, or 3 x 1022 atoms in a gram. Of course, when those atoms break down beyond the groups of three that make up SiO2,

30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms. that’s plenty, right?

If we were to dissolve that gram of sand in all of the water that comprises all the Earth’s oceans and seas, complete with agitation and re-dilution again and again, and assuming absolutely perfect distribution of the sand atoms, we would see

(3 x 1022 atoms) / (1.37 x 1021 L == 21.8978102 atoms per L in all of the world’s oceans. If you look at the huge number above for 200C, you can readily see that a small amount of water such as that contained in all of the Earth’s oceans would need to be diluted many many more times at 1:100 to yield the full volume of 200C. Once we have surpassed 22 times the oceans’ volume, we have dropped past the point where you might statistically be able to expect a single atom to exist in a Liter of water, but yet this is a very strong product?

(3 * (1022))atoms / (1.37000 * (1021)) Liters = 21.8978102 atoms / Liter if that one gram of silicon were spread equally throughout the world’s oceans and seas. That’s pretty impressive, actually, considering that that one little tiny gram of sand could be spread throughout the entirety of the world’s oceans. One might even be able to see seven full SiO2 molecules in that Liter if you were lucky.

The problem comes that we’re dealing with a relatively small amount of solvent (water) as far as homeopathy is concerned. This is only 1021 L of water, not the 10400 L of water that a proper dilution to 200C would require. With the sample of sand, we’re limited to 3×1022 atoms; any dilution past that point becomes problematic. Once you have 10400 L of dilution,

(3 * 1022 atoms) / (1 * 10400 L) == 3 / 10378

There are only enough atoms to have THREE of them in 10378 L of water. Three individual, effectively indivisible (no amount of simply shaking the water is going to split them up, anyhow), atoms. How many 15mL bottles would you have to consume to statistically be able to say you had consumed 3 whole atoms worth of active ingredient to get both your Silicon and Oxygen atoms? Had we started with one kg per L of product, we’d still only have 1000 times as much product, or 3/ 10375; statistically insignificant difference, as you’d still need to consume the world’s oceans many times over to be certain that you had consumed your handful of atoms.

Interesting volumes that don’t come close to being large enough to hold a fully diluted 200C elixir;

Earth’s volume is roughly 1.0832 * 1024 L

The Sun which we orbit is said to be able to contain 1.3 * 106 Earths, for a total volume of 1.4082 Ɨ 1030 L

That’s not much volume either, so how about a sphere that has a radius that’s a full light year?

1 light year = 9.4605284 Ɨ 1018 decimeters

(4 / 3) * PI * ((9.4605284 * (1018))3) = 3.54678441 * 1051 L

Not even close, but imagine that single gram of sand, held in your hand, with its 3 x 1022 atoms. See how not every Liter in that massive sphere that is so massive it would take light from the center a full year to escape the orb could contain even one single atom of the original material? Not even close.

Water doesn’t have memory, or it would be able to remember all the fish crap it had in it over the years; that couldn’t possibly be good for you. To believe that zero quantity of a medicine is effective in curing what ails you is to believe in real magic. Expelliarmus! Hmmm… nope.

6 comments

Our spies have infiltrated the Creation Museum

June 18th, 2007 | Category: Creation, God, Pseudoscience

museumlogo_sm.jpg

Our agents have reported back after a successful infiltration of Kentucky’s very own Creation “Museum”. Claudia has posted pictures of herself and her partner in crime as they attempt to fit in with the creationist. The t-shirts were a nice touch, proclaiming that “God don’t need no science” and “I pity the foo that don’t love Jesus!” (Artworks courtesy of the kids at Objective Ministries)

The photos are good, but many of the comments being left are comedy gold. Watch for the handful of Creation Scienticians that show up to dispute the lies and misdeeds of the Evil Evolutionists who leave comments.

Some quality signage from the museum is quoted below, and I’d critique the grammar, but that would detract from the argument over CONTENT.

Shark Teeth Variety
There are more than four hundred species of sharks in the world. In a sin-cursed world, most sharks consume swimming creatures, so their teeth are designed to prevent captured animals from escaping. Yet the teeth are also loose enough to break off if an animal is struggling too much. Some sharks have teeth specialized for very different diest, such as the flat teeth of the Port Jackson shark, which uses its rounded teeth to crush mollusk shells.

Flat or round? I’m confused… but such is the way things go in a sin-cursed world such as ours.

Fossils – The Biblical View
Views about fossils have come and gone. But fossils themselves do not tell us where these creatures came from or how they died.

Fortunately, we have another source of factual data — the first book of the Bible, Genesis. This book makes it obvious that carnivory [sic], disease, and death, as seen in the fossil record, came after sin. So the fossil record had to be formed after sin entered the world.

Genesis also give an eyewitness account of a catastrophic, worldwide flood, about 4,350 years ago, which covered the whole earth in water and destroyed the air-breathing animals on land. God send this Flood during the days of Noah, as a judgment for mankind’s sin. This Flood and its aftermath would have formed massive fossil layers all over the world.

God’s Word holds the key to our understanding of God’s world. Most fossils are a silent testimony to God’s worldwide judgment.

I really have nothing to add to that; it speaks volumes all on its own.

The comments on the pictures managed to extract responses out of me on a couple instances, interrupting the process of trying to put together a post on this. One creationist posted a list of “known Christian scientists” in an attempt to claim that God has a place in science, and I had to respond;

You can have Newton; he was also an alchemist and loved mystical things; I’d rather the Christians claim him that foist him off on us atheists like you do with Hitler and Stalin.

It’s not that Christianity and Science are incompatible; they’re completely different things. Apples and Oysters aren’t incompatible; they’re completely different things, and it’s conceivable that you might enjoy each of them for their own merits. However, one does not compare to the other on the same scale, even if a Christian does work in science, it doesn’t affect anything unless they bring faith into things;

1) Magic orb in sky lights up world
2) Magic orb goes away
3) God performs a miracle
4) Profit!

or …

4) Prophet!

Skeptical Dog has no ties to the duo of interlopers; I use the word “our” loosely in the title. Apparently that lucky photoset has been listed on Digg; should drag in a couple thousand more eyes and an Ark-load of pithy comments.

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When is a skeptic not a skeptic?

June 17th, 2007 | Category: Non-skeptical, Podcasts, Pseudoscience

In a moment of memory lapse, I typed in the address for the Skeptics Guide to the Universe site with the wrong top level domain. Rather than typing in http://www.theskepticsguide.org, I typed in http://www.theskepticsguide.com/ and was lead to a site for someone who needs to use a dictionary when choosing a name for a book.

“The Skeptic’s Guide to the Adventures of Life” is a light-hearted look at life’s deeper lessons and mysteries as it chronicles business strategist Connie Siewert’s personal experiences, and those of her healers, during a three year journey to wellness.

The table of contents reads as a who’s who of pseudoscience:

  • Past Life Regression-Hypnotherapist
  • Healing Touch/Guided Imagery/Trauma Release
  • Reiki Master/Shaman/Earth Goddess
  • Iridologist and Doctor of Naturopathy
  • Colon Hydrotherapist
  • Angel Channeler
  • Astrologer
  • Medical Intuitive/Healer
  • Gem and Mineral Show
  • Our Connection with Colors
  • Acupuncture/Chinese Herbalist
  • Reflexologist
  • Sounds and Vibrations
  • Equine Assisted Psychotherapist
  • Psychics, Dowsers, Intuitives, Channelers
  • The Traveling Soul

I checked out some sample excerpts on the site, hoping that maybe this was a skeptic who went in with mind open, but not empty. I was hoping that this might be a good resource from the perspective of someone evaluating claims directly. Instead, I find poorly written examples of dictionary definition gullibility and empty-mindedness; very zen, but not at all skeptical.

Regarding Reflexology;

Just when you think you have learned everything you need to know about different energy modalities, you have an experience that helps you understand there is still a wealth of information out there to explore that you have yet to even touch on.

Well, she hasn’t learned everything, but she’s learned to speak the mumbo-jumbo with the best of them;

It was during this part of the session that I started seeing purple energy blobs appear in my closed-eye darkness. I am always entertained when something like this happens, but this was even more unusual than what I had experienced before. Typically I would see little purple blobs changing shapes and coming towards me indicating little spirit guides coming to aid in the healing process. But this time, the purple blobs were big and coming from behind my eyes and then disappearing into a yellow blob of energy.

Being a skeptic does not mean that you’re a blank slate waiting for any loonie to come along and fill in what you should believe in chalk. It’s not about being so open minded that your brain falls out; it’s about evaluating evidence and judging.

What we have here is a skeptic that believes everything she’s told by anyone who uses the word ‘energy’. What’s next, cats that bark? atheists that pray? a Pirates of the Caribbean movie that’s good?

(from foo.ca)

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Picking and choosing your skepticism

June 16th, 2007 | Category: Aliens, Celebrity, Cryptozoology, Non-skeptical, Podcasts

a closeup of a ROD


I listen to the Kevin Smith “Smodcast” every so often, but paitence wears thin on some of the topics of discussion. The premise is that Kevin Smith and Scott Moser get together and bullshit about whatever the hell they want; blowjobs, politics, kids, etc. They give their unprofessional, uninformed opinions on whatever the hell they can think up; giving a bit of credence to something Bruce Willis expressed not so long ago.

ā€œI don’t think my opinion means jack s**t, because I’m an actor. ā€œWhy do actors think their opinions mean more because you act? You just caught a break as an actor. There are hundreds – thousands – of actors who are just as good as I am, and probably better. ā€œHave you heard anything useful come out of an actor’s mouth lately?ā€

I think that Kevin and Scott might agree that they’re just sitting around bullshitting, and that they really shouldn’t be believed or trusted. They don’t appear to be THAT full of themselves to believe their opinions really matter. Kevin is joined by pals Walter Flannagan and Malcolm Ingram on episode 14 when Scott is out of town. Episode 14 covers how it’s easy to believe that aliens are responsible for recent technological advances like the Stealth Bomber and MP3s.

Keep in mind that Malcolm, a Canadian, states that the leader of Canada is Paul Martin (absolutely 1000% positive – I will cut off my little finger right now if that’s not it) who left office in 24 January 2006. He doesn’t cut off his finger when the Americans correct him thanks to their superior use of Google.

These guys have obviously spent much too much time getting high, as they move on to ‘Loose Change’ and UFO documentary and rods. They say that rods are claimed to be sticks with wings that move too fast for anyone to see, and they tell stories about the UFOs and rods they have seen, including one that allegedly appeared on a TV broadcast of a hockey (Devils Stanley Cup game 3 in Dallas) game, and nobody has any problem believing it.

There’s a period where they argue about the origins of rods; one expresses belief that they are an earth-based insect of some sort, and the other is incredulous; he can’t believe that he’s sitting there with someone who honestly doesn’t believe that rods come from OUTER SPACE!

Marijuana doesn’t hurt you, but you will believe nearly anything you’re told, you’ll hallucinate, and maybe you won’t even remember who is running the country you live in. Just as I start to think that these xenophiles would believe anything, they express skepticism over the existence of the monster in Loch Ness.

Episode 14 was a near complete suspension of disbeliefe in crazy, but Episode 15 became an example of strange historical skepticism. Kevin put forward a thought that maybe, just maybe, Helen Keller wasn’t really deaf and blind. I can see how there might be a possibility if Anne Sullivan was the only person who translated between Helen and the world. Like with facilitated communication and the severely autistic, it is conceivable that Anne Sullivan might have been the brains behind the speech and writings or Helen if she was the sole conduit. I’m not so sure that was the case, without further research, and it’s not something that Wikipedia really touched on.

I don’t really understand partial skepticism; it’s okay to believe in ghosts, but UFOs are insanity, or it’s okay to believe in an all-knowing god who performs miracles, but it would be insanity to believe in werewolves.

—–

Smodcast at Quick Stop Entertainment

Episode 15

In which things go back to normal and our heroes [...] incur the wrath of all right-thinking and decent people by spending nearly an hour trying to figure out whether Helen Keller was truly impaired or just party to an elaborate ruse.

Episode 14

In which our heroes cross the border with a guest from the True North, analyze the ā€œLoose Changeā€ of UFOs, posit that even unidentified species worship the Devils, lament the loss of Bigfoot, question Nessie’s diet, theorize how the Republicans can take the White House for the next one hundred terms, and reveal Canada’s greatest shame.

(From foo.ca)

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